Why don't I like Honda K20's

[KingK_series]

"right now I'd really like to see if any of the honda conversion crew are man enough to admit that this claim that the Honda install is just 15kg heavier than even a stock Rover +ss exhaust install is absolutely pure fabrication.

"

i for one cant admit to something i have no proof for. if its heavier then its heavier. im man enough to admit that i really dont give a toss. im happy with it regardless of the weight. it goes like stink and handles great. im also man enough to admit that if a lighter, affordable, 220bhp, reliable k series was available then id be all over it

so far ive established that the k is lighter but despite all your posts i still dont know if its affordable or reliable. if it was id seriously consider getting an early k s2 as theyre far cheaper than a used honda conversion and letting you sort it out. seriously, it would be a no brainer.[/quote]


Cool now you are talking

the only problem is that I am not in business doing this.... but maybe someone else can take it on? We will see.

however one thing I do know is that there will be no 220bhp Ks - that spec is in the past.

[Mikie711]

Did you not read Bob Hiscot's post on here about how his 300bhp sc Rover engine overhauled a 360bhp Honda SCCC engine in a straight line.

Remind him Bob..

And did you not read Dave Walkers piece about how the Yota engine had nothing on the K on the rollers until the second cam kicked in over 6500rpm but that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes. He was scathing. - have you not seen that?

Yet again you have been exposed for being prone to exaggeration and/or inaccuracy.

And did you not read Dave Walkers piece about how the Yota engine had nothing on the K on the rollers until the second cam kicked in over 6500rpm but that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes. He was scathing. - have you not seen that?

Hardly scathing and nowhere in the article does it mention anything about "that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes". And also he is talking at he end about aftermarket SC kits not the factory kit which is very good. The SC turns the 2zz into something else entirely, especially in 260bhp form

[KingK_series]

Did you not read Bob Hiscot's post on here about how his 300bhp sc Rover engine overhauled a 360bhp Honda SCCC engine in a straight line.

Remind him Bob..

And did you not read Dave Walkers piece about how the Yota engine had nothing on the K on the rollers until the second cam kicked in over 6500rpm but that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes. He was scathing. - have you not seen that?

Yet again you have been exposed for being prone to exaggeration and/or inaccuracy.

And did you not read Dave Walkers piece about how the Yota engine had nothing on the K on the rollers until the second cam kicked in over 6500rpm but that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes. He was scathing. - have you not seen that?

Hardly scathing and nowhere in the article does it mention anything about "that the car was so much heavier it had no advantage in a straight line and was slower round any corner and poor on the brakes". And also he is talking at he end about aftermarket SC kits not the factory kit which is very good. The SC turns the 2zz into something else entirely, especially in 260bhp form

There are plenty of people I know with a stock K who can keep pace with a Yota 190, and with a simple port to a K16 head [135+bhp] are quicker even in a S2.

The TT conversion vs sc honda was a mistake for which I have apologised


however it remains the case that even an old TT 1.8L engine that was not properly mapped surprised MSC in their show Honda car.

that it wasn't a test against a sc cc Honda you are right, I look forward to showing you test of one of mine against the sc cc honda.

Any thoughts on your missing 25kg?

[Scuffers]

More every F1 engineer I know which is several, including Adrian Newey absolutely agree, and I can tell you there was never any conversation about putting a heavier engine in Adrian's Elise, he has a light and more powerful than any Honda SC CC Rover K series in his car. (disputed fact removed - Shug)

OK, had enough of this horse-sh*t.

you have just made an accusation there that is total fiction.

I have NEVER phoned up Lanzantes (Dean is the only one I know) and had *any* conversation with him about Honda's (I don't even have his phone number)

I have spoken to Dean many times over the years in passing, and the only think I ever got involved with on the Red-Bull car (that's not owned by Adrian BTW), is when Eliseparts did a one-off set of uprights for the car when they ran it in the Britcar 24H (adapted from Eliseparts S2 race uprights).

Yes, I have had conversations about superchargers (they had an MP62 re-worked/ported), in which I have mentioned how we used them on the K20, but I have never even suggested they should look at swapping to one.

Now, (personal abuse removed - Shug), how are you going to get out of this one? - it simply never happened.

when are you going to admit that 99% of the sh*t you post is groundless retoric?

Oh, hang on, do I see a chink?

The TT conversion vs sc honda was a mistake for which I have apologised

[KingK_series]

And here to make the point about my engines -

is a complete, bar coils and engine loom KingK engine. First pic on any forum.



This engine is the heaviest because it uses a stock Rover crank to rev out to 9600rpm, Other engines use the ideally counterweighted KingK steel crank which is 2kg lighter than stock. The 4 competition coils would add 765gmm to the engine so the comparison with the HondaK20A2 is 75.56kg vs 122.4kg

Thats 46kg in just the engine weight.

[Scuffers]

Well that is NOT what Dean tells me!

well, unless you have it in a sworn affidavit, I suggest you don;t mention it again.

I will say I have spoken about you to Dean in the past, (personal attack removed - Shug)

[Shug]

Scuffers makes a fair point in that your post he's highlighted makes a direct accusation. Although I do have to ask that Scuffers moderates the tone too.

King K, do you remember the discussion regarding what is and isn't acceptable to post in this thread? Do you remember the part about calling out people and their work?

The thread is about 2 posts away from locking and arbitrary editing to remove reference to other individuals and their work.

You know the rules. It's now time to either stick to them or consider losing the ability to air your views here.

[Shug]

Enough.

We've already had legal notice on some of the inferences flying about on this thread. If these inferences and accusations are repeated on other threads, they will be deleted and the posters banned.

I have absolutely no desire to do this, but similarly I also have absolutely no desire to have to start handing out database entries to lawyers.

Thread locked.

[robin]

Dear SE friends,

We (the moderators) have decided to unlock this thread (in a few days) and allow continued discussion on this topic.

If we have to intervene again, we'll be deleting or locking accounts, not just threads.

You all know the rules, but if you're in any doubt as to the acceptability of a post, please PM robin (or one of the other mods if you prefer) with the post BEFORE you submit it and they will let you know if there's anything you ought to reword or steer clear of.

If you see a post you don't like then here are you options:

(1) Ignore it. If appropriate, consider adding the poster to your foes list so you don't see their posts any more.
(2) Respond in a polite and rational manner putting your (presumably different) point of view or data. Keep in mind the possibility of getting your post pre-moderated.
(3) If you feel the original post should not stand as is then report it and DO NOT REPLY to it.

If you do something different then you lose. We will not waste time wading through posts editing out abusive or potentially defamatory remarks. Instead we'll be deleting any such post, and any post that quotes it, in its entirety and without any discussion. If there are repeat offenders we'll be locking or deleting their account too.

We'll unlock this thread in a day or two to give everybody a chance to read and consider this waffle before posting.

Respectfully yours,

Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos

(OK, those aren't our real names, but it'll give you something to do while waiting for the thread to unlock ... hint, it has something to do with thread ).

[robin]

Thread unlocked - at his request I've deleted the last few posts made by KingK_series as these were off topic. Feel free to edit/delete any posts of your own that you think don't add anything to the thread (but there is no obligation to do so).

Cheers,
Robin

[Scuffers]

LOL!

well, let me add something to this thread of why I like the K20.


(Note: this is power/torque at the hub flanges)

So, this is a K20A with new liners/pistons/rods, Standard head/cams/valves, no porting, no re-works, nothing.

Then a JRSC M62 Supercharger bolted onto it, along with a Garrett GTX3582R turbo, all bolted into the back of Jamie's Exige:



and running on Tesco's best 99 fuel...

What's not to like?

[tut]

Build me one of those Simon for N3 and I will include you in my will.

tut

[Dipper]

Build me one of those Simon for N3 and I will include you in my will.

tut

Sounds fair but if i was him i'd be asking for cash as theres a strong possibilty you'd be taking the car with you(or you with it even!)

would make for an extremely fast half lap at KH though

[mckeann]

i think that would get me back in an Elise. How much Simon??

[Scuffers]

i think that would get me back in an Elise. How much Simon??

depends where you're starting from....

for Jamie's, considering he started with a SC IC K20 with everything, it's probably in the order of £10-11K in parts then another £4-5k in install/dyno time/etc. and that does not include any other stuff we have done (datalogger additions, wheels, tyres, dampers, etc etc.)