Help! Car won't start

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:03 am

Andy, its significant that the fuel pump turned on but didnt turn off. This leads me to believe that the problem lies within the emerald its self as the ecu had to actively earth the fuel pump relay. It's doing somthing at least!

When it fired up was pin 29 was still jumpered to pin 4?

Cheers,

Steve

robin · Post by **robin** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:19 am

Andy, I have an S2 emerald ECU here - assuming you can get PTP to send you the standard map for your car you're welcome to see if it works on your car - if it does you can borrow it while the ECU is away at Emerald for repair.

Cheers,
Robin

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:09 am

Steve,

When I tested the fuel pump 4 and 29 were still jumpered but I only let it run for a couple of seconds. When the pump ran and ran the ECU was plugged back in normally.

Robin, I have the map for my car, it was actually mapped by Emerald by the previous owner.

Is it now time to speak to Emerald or is there more poking about I should try first?

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:21 pm

Andy, with the ecu plugged in normally, can you still manually earth 29 and 4? Id be interested to see if you get a red light on the emerald at that point.

Cheers,

Steve

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Steve you have a PM

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:39 pm

Massive thank you for Robin coming over tonight to tinker with the car

Muchly appreciated!

I'm sure he can explain things better than me, but fair to say that the adapter loom is fried and the ECU isn't too healthy either

At least we have a starting point to getting it sorted

Even with the knackered adapter loom Robin's ECU almost managed to start the car, even if it did think I had a turbocharged 12 cylinder engine

My ECU still won't switch on so that'll be off to Emerald for a service and an upgrade tomorrow.

Thanks too to Steve for coming over for a blether and help

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:22 am

Andy, I've had a closer look at the EU3->Emerald adapter PCB and it's goosed. I've lifted the voltage regulator off the bottom (after scraping off a ton of carbon) and the track underneath is burned out. Many other tracks are looking in a bad way, so while I could perhaps repair that track I would be concerned that one of the other ones will fail. Several of the leads on the components on the top side are corroded like they've been heated up in water too.

So, I think plan (a) should be to try and source a replacement adapter from PTP or Emerald, whoever is making them. I think we could take a new one apart, varnish the PCB properly while it's still in good condition, then seal the plastic box with a proper sealant and make a robust solution.

Plan (b) will be to repair the original PCB, but it's in such poor state I think that it will continue to deteriorate no matter what happens.

Plan (c) will be to get our own equivalent PCB made and populate it, but this is clearly extreme and will cost more than just getting a replacement if available.

Let me know how you get on with PTP. Also, if you want to borrow my spare Lotus S2 ECU just to get your car mobile you're most welcome to it - let me know.

Cheers,
Robin

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:38 am

Mmmmmmm, buggered then

I'm going to try for a new one, hopefully I can provide enough proof to show that I do already have one, or, what's left of one.

Will a stock ECU cope with the PTP kit? If it will then I'll happily pop over for your ECU. Hopefully Emerald will turn it round in a couple of weeks but maybe that's just plain optimism

Thanks again for freezing away in my garage

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:42 am

The stock ECU will run the engine; part throttle will be safe; wide open throttle or more than about 4K revs to be avoided as you'll run dangerously lean/close to the detonation limits.

It won't idle very well, but might just about cope.

I.e. it's good enough to pop down the shops or just move it on/off the drive; also it'll keep the electrics dry and it will allow you to keep the battery topped off by running the engine.

Cheers,
Robin

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:37 am

I know we've had this discussion before - but I've never been able to get my car running on just the K4 with the modded head.

Feel free to try - I would be interested in the results, but I have a back up plan available should it not work

Mac

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:38 pm

I spoke to DVA Power, who supplied and installed the Emerald. There is a copyright issue with the adapter plugs as Siemens won't provide them for that intended use

So getting another one is looking very unlikely.

Dave at DVA is emailing me the wiring diagrams to hard wire it.

Robin, do you think it's worth trying to repair the connector, make a new one or just salvage the plug and fly lead off it and hard wire it? I obviously don't expect you to do the hard wiring

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:45 pm

If you want I'll get some new PCBs made to a similar design; mechanically identical so will fit in same enclosure.

We'll fix a few gremlins while we're at it (some components appear to have been tacked onto the PCB as an afterthought!).

I reckon cost for just a populated PCB (you supply old loom, old enclosure and I recycle the ECU connector from old box) will be 100/unit.

If we can get a group build going that'll drop to more like 75/unit I suppose.

New mechanics (i.e. a new enclosure, new loom wired to new emerald plug) will be another 50 or so on top - you won't need those, but anyone that's interested will probably cough up the dosh rather than chop the loom !

Cheers,
Robin

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:49 pm

If you think you can properly fix/clone it go for it

If you can simply hard wire it, why is there any electronics in the box?

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:05 pm

Andy, i think the electronics are there to drive the IAC valve, as the emerald cant drive the S2 motor directly. If the stepper motor controller is gubbed, (and it looked pretty comprehensivly gubbed yesterday!) this will explain your idle problems...

Cheers,

Steve

Andy · Post by **Andy** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:10 pm

So how do you get round the stepper motor problem if you don't have one of these illusive looms?