Mapping The Elise

[Scuffers]

No I haven't, show me where. A little un fair to compare my one Dyno Run (mapped by me, on the road) with your 200 or so, No ?

Spent the morning reading through Dyno Plot. Plenty of Link-Up and other proffessional installs on there. Found vitually no difference in BHP/Torque than the "proper" manifold installers.

That aside, with respect, there's something clearly wrong then as you say it's 220 Bhp yet the plot on Dynoplot shows 237.6

Now, if you entered the torque values, and it's calculated from that, it would imply that the torque numbers you have don't stack with the power numbers?

now, this could be something as simple as finger trouble, or maybe the torque figures are not corrected and the power one are (or vice versa), without looking at the plot, it's impossible to even make a sensible guess.

I would suggest it's as much in your interests as anybodies to have the accurate info out there rather than guesswork and incorrect plots?

(if a scanners too hard work, just take a picture of it?)

[Gourlay83]

Simon,

I said one of things on Seloc (which i though you were banned from ) and as I said before this forum tends not to get involved in that sort of thing. Leave that on Seloc, thanks.

Reason I posted that was because of the stick that manifold got in the first place. I was expecting really bad torque figures but all the ones I looked at on Dyno Plot were around the same figue. Although mine does seem to have a step in torque when it switches from low to high cam. Which I think is partialy down to being on the wrong cam angle and advance on the lower cam.

The reason (as ive said before) the bhp is so high on the Dyno Plot is because I only plotted every 1000rpm. Wasn't wasting my time plotting it all out.

Anyhoo, See where this is going. Your posting a reply to a Seloc thread on here because you banned. The intention of this thread was for help and advise on mapping which you could have contributed.

If you keep watching Seloc, i will post up the Dyno or a more accurate Dyno Plot.
Alan

[Scuffers]

sorry?

you seem to be doing 1+1=5 again.

why are you so defensive about it all? if you don;t want to get into a pointless sh*t fight, would it not just be easier to either:

1) not post anything about it
2) just post the data/details without the rhetoric

to attempt to hide behind different forums just seems somewhat churlish .....

PS. Please don't try second guessing what I may or may not be doing as you will invariably get it wrong.

[Gourlay83]

Bye Simon

[steve_weegie]

Oh FFS i just typed a damn good diplomatic post, to be greeted with the two above when i pressed send

Scuffers, I've had a look at one of your supercharged plots and it did look very linerar indeed. How much is down to the manifold design compared to the vtec / ignition maps? Any advice you'd care to share on here?

Alan, for what its worth, my Saab map has been 99% complete for months now, with just that elusive little bit left to get it perfect! 630cc injectors and a full 3" turbo back exhaust are in the post though, so it looks like i'll be starting from scratch again shortly

Cheers,

Steve

[Scuffers]

Oh FFS i just typed a damn good diplomatic post, to be greeted with the two above when i pressed send

yup, welcome to my world!

Scuffers, I've had a look at one of your supercharged plots and it did look very linerar indeed. How much is down to the manifold design compared to the vtec / ignition maps? Any advice you'd care to share on here?

supercharged ones are somewhat easier to get flat, your not trying to 'coaks' air into the engine, your pumping it in!and using roots with fixed displacement it's just a function of pulley ratio's.

The trick with mapping them is the balance between too much/too little overlap on the valves, too much you just push the charge out the exhaust, too little and the boost pressure rises and creates huge parasitics/heat/etc.

fueling is much the same as any other engine, ie. set your target map and work towards it, (although the temp corrections can get interesting), ignition is also pretty straight forward, just a case of making sure the corrections are right before you commit to mapping the limits (as they can move quite a lot).

Exhaust is still important but you are looking for different things out of it....

end of the day, there's no magic here, just a lot of patience and testing/dyno time.

[tut]

Would like to add my own piece about Scuffers. I have known him for ten years and he has helped me out with problems several times over that period. We have always got on fine, maybe helped by my advanced years and the fact that I do not get into slanging matches on Forums.

There are very few people with more knowledge of the Elise than he has, likewise with the Honda conversion. He was part of the original team that designed the conversion that later became the Link-Up. N1 was one of the first cars converted in '04, followed by N3. Agreed he is not the most patient of people when the same question is asked over and over again, but from what I have seen, he is the one that is on the end of the personal attacks whereas he sticks to facts and is usually correct.

After five weeks of unsuccessfully trying to source a driveshaft assembly, he is helping me out. Two sides to every story, some use Scuffham as a swear word, the rest of us have appreciated the help and knowledge that he has passed on and ignored the other side of it.

tut

[hiscot]

gota say i am with tut on this one , its a shame technical forums just dont have the content anymore ,
i would rather read what scuffers, erland ,jim at 2bular and from any one else thats prepared to dig into their own pocket and develop their products
its a shame about the bun fights but there was a lot of tech detail in those slanging matches , and a lot to be learned
regarding scuffers he does not suffer fools imo and has even shot me down once ( and he was right too) but there is not much he does not know about the elise he has been there and done it all before , its a shame his k series web pages have long gone ( i would of liked to seen his water cooled pg1 )
again i have just come back from mapping using very little overlap on my supercharged k and power runs where raising the intake temps as above , sadly we never got to fully map and play with the overlap as the charger is not making its boost , but like i said he has been there and does know what he is on about imo
or at least 89% of the time

[r10crw]

Sorry to hear about your charger Bob, so is it just not making as much boost as expected or is there a problem?
What you are saying is quite interesting Simon but most likely because I dont totally understand, I was sure when running my charged car Corbie had to map it with almost maximum angle on the cams at anything above 5K but you say you have to find a balance between draw from the exhaust and boost? So perhaps more power could have been found from reducing these angles? It was such a long time ago Im probably wrong but interesting none the less.
Cheers Craig.

[hiscot]

yep craig
boost was below par and dropping with rpm , we wanted to get a good base map then adjust the overlap and see what the dyno was saying
my understanding is about dynamic comp ie charger makes 0.8 bar excessive overlap pushes 0.2 bar out the exhaust engine therefore engine only sees 0.6 bar as its base line and dynamic comp is reduced
I am limited to ex overlap due to my cock up with the valve pockets on the custom pistons , but i hope to work around that

[Gourlay83]

I didn't think that was a bun fight ....I simply didn't want to bring a seloc debate over here. I thought some of you would have understood that.

See you all at Knockhill,

Alan

[tut]

Alan

bob is not talking about your post's, he is referring to the SELOC ones over the years, which were classic when Simon, Erland, Jim, John Sweet, and of course Joe McCarthy, Scuffers best buddy, when they all got going.

tut

[steve_weegie]

See you all at Knockhill

I've never been in a Honda'd elise, in case you're feeling generous with the pax laps...

[jen]

That'll be fine Steve, just say to him when you're ready.

Jen

[r10crw]

You taking her out on track too jen?