Duratec in detail

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KingK_series
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by KingK_series » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:18 pm

David wrote:


I am Using 12.5 CR Supertech pistons and Carrillo (Cosworth) rods. Ford specify a weight tolerance between their standard pistons that amounts to approximately 3 grams. The Supertech pistons were within 2 grams of each other and the Carrillo rods were within a gram. The gudgeon pins were identical in weight. By grading and matching the components I manage to get each piston assembly to within a gram of each other. The new piston and rods are 66 grams lighter than the standard items.

Image

Image


one word of advice


- it is normal to balance pistons to within less than a tenth of a gram between pistons, a gramm is too much.

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:55 pm

Waste of time Simon. In an in-line 4 cylinder engine anyway.

Image

The dynamic length-change of the rod mean the BDC inertial loads acting on the crank are approximately 50% of TDC - so one piston will never balance its opposite number and hence the inherent second order vibration of a in-line 4 cylinder engine. Different configurations may benefit though.
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by KingK_series » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:55 pm

David wrote:Waste of time Simon. In an in-line 4 cylinder engine anyway.

Image

The dynamic length-change of the rod mean the BDC inertial loads acting on the crank are approximately 50% of TDC - so one piston will never balance its opposite number and hence the inherent second order vibration of a in-line 4 cylinder engine. Different configurations may benefit though.


not at all

50% balance of an in line 4 is normal for crank counterweight\\\ 100%F1 [rotational} and 50% inertial = ideal or 50% counterweight as its called


- that's what your graph is about

that was not what I was posting about above -

balancing to a tenth of a gram is to balance inertial forces from throw to throw - that is a completely different thing from single element [ie one cylinder which is what your graph illustrates], if its off then the crank will wobble [vibrate along it's length] as opposed to vibrate in the vertical plane over each cylinder.


and there total mass difference I was talking about - that goes to F4 forces, - secondaries - that is vibration at twice the engine frequency, mass hurts badly there..
.... as well as - obviously - increasing by 30% the total F2 Inertial loading, which is only balanced in one axis, - it is also a load on rod crank and piston pin etc, and as we all know Inertia makes the engine slow.


second order forces are F2 - inertial forces


secondaries are F4,

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:17 pm

The Caterham R400 map is locked, but I also wanted to keep the original ECU as, one day, I will return the car to it's original spec. So Sb developments have supplied a new 9A4 with a base map for my spec. In order to reduce the inevitable trouble shooting on the new engine, I decided to fit the new ECU to the existing R400 installation before I removed it. It started on the button and ran like a dream - albeit a bit rich.

Image


Before torquing down the head I did one last check that the timing peg I made was accurate. This time I used a dial gauge to measure an arbitrary figure each side of TDC. By reading off the degrees on the timing disc, and splitting the difference, I was able to locate TDC. This matched the peg with no measurable error. Time to move on

Image


I think most people use an OME type gasket and I decided to purchased the Cosworth item, which appearers to be identical to all the other sources I've seen. It is, however, not identical to the standard FoMoCo item in that the water gallery holes are more restricted - particularly on the exhaust side. But it does have additional holes at the front. I'm guessing that this is a result of some development work to better balance the flow of coolant in the head.

Image



This was a significant day in the project today - the old engine came out. No going back now


Image


The 'old' engine is now in the process of being stripped of components need for the 'new engine'. A bit I always liked is this breather cover. The dry sump will do away with the breather so this little cover supplied by Caterham does a nice job of covering up the hole. Not a budget item though!

Image


The first major setback looms on the horizon . In fairness, Mic had been tipped me off that the sump may not clear the the ARP main studs and, and when stripping the Titan sump off the old engine, it became clear that this sump may have this problem. You can see how close the standard bolts are in the picture. and the ARP studs were about 1 cm longer. The options may be to shorten the studs, or return to the standard bolts. Some careful measurements need to be made . . .

Image



The ARP stud problem: If you look for it, there's quite a lot on the forums about this. Basically the studs appear to be too long and hit the wndage tray. I found it hard to believe that a company like ARP would manufacture a part that would not fit, so first step was to check how deep the threaded hole was in the block. Lo and behold, it was about a 1 mm longer than required.

Next step was to look closely at the stud and look for witness marks where the thread may be binding. Sure enough, the top of the thread looked like it was beginning to get tight. This was good news as, if it had been at the bottom, then the thread would not have been long enough. I needed three more threads and was confident that they could be tightened by this much. It didn't take much torque to tighten them fully home and I probably would have done this if the instruction had not said 'finger tight'. Problem solved

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Here’s the sump ‘trial’ fitted to check clearance. In the end there was more than I expected.

Image


I'm continuing to clean up the components from the old engine and hope to move on assembling them on the new engine soon

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:19 pm

Time for an update

I am using a Caterham branded Titan sump that I purchased in my 2010 upgrade. I covered it on a previous blog so won't go into detail here. It pre-dates the Raceline sump that most people use today and does not provide ground clearance of that unit, but otherwise works well. But there is a weakness in the connection to the pump which needs to be checked: a 'top hat' arrangement provides 2 O-rings that are squashed between the sump but the pump. If the oil pump is ever removed, you need torque it up while it is held up towards the the sump to guarantee a good position and seal.


Image

Image



The cams I'm using are Ultimate Performance's UL39 & UL40. The choice was made purely on Simon's recommendation for the spec I wanted.

With the initial timing set using the slots on the cams at TDC (Simon felt this was the best way to start), I checked the valve timing with a dial gauge. If you have ever done this you'll understand how difficult it is to get your head round the readings. But after checking a few text books, it began to make sense - they are around 60 80 80 50, with duration of 320 (inlet) and 310 (exhaust). The textbooks suggest this will give a useful RPM range of 3500 - 9000 with peak power somewhere around 8500. Somewhat wilder than I expected but we'll see how it goes .


Image



With the engine sealed up I began fitting the auxiliaries. I had thought about fitting the alternator on the exhaust side but, as the smaller pulley worked fine with the original set-up, I decided to keep it that way. Next will be the roller barrels overhaul and fitting.


Image



As planned the barrels were overhauled and fitted today. I was surprised at how poor the condition was that they were in, mainly with wear and corrosion. They've done about 5K miles - and they will certainly be past their best by 10K.


Image



They are, however, a very simple device once the end plates are removed and it was not long before they were done and fitted to the engine. But I did make the classic mistake of not removing the TPS first, so now it's scrap .


Image



Setting them up is not difficult. Using a 6mm rod to hold them open, the end stops are adjusted in turn to take up the slack. It is worth saying that the 6mm gap at the front is not the 'throttle' opening - that all happens at the back (engine) side. This procedure effectively set the barrel to 'just' closed. There is also a bleed hole which will be adjusted to get idle flow correct when I'm up and running.


Image



Well, the engine is now finished . the final touch was to fit the rather nice flywheel and twin plate Super Clutch from SB Developments.


Image


The twin plate super clutch is thicker and needs a rounded clutch release bearing. This was supplied with a new release mechanism by SB developments as part of the clutch kit. It also has a spacer to provide the correct position. The hardest part was making up the hoses.

Image



The engine went in today - a fairly standard job with no real issues but the clutch does feel rather 'firm'. I'm sure I'll get used to it. All the fluids are in but the TPS didn't arrive, so couldn't start it up - maybe Monday


Image



The big moment came! With my son supervising me (and keeping me right) the start button was pushed. I was surprised that it fired instantly. Although I stopped the video by accident, I continued to run it for about 20 minutes. I will not run again until it is on the rolling road next week - so that it's run-in under load.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrksbKEXfFI
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by Dominic » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:34 pm

Great stuff. As per previous posts, you explain and photograph things very well. :thumbsup

It seemed to start very easily - I guess everything was primed ready to fire.

Looking forward to hearing the results from the RR.
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:51 pm

Dominic wrote:Great stuff. As per previous posts, you explain and photograph things very well. :thumbsup

It seemed to start very easily - I guess everything was primed ready to fire.

Looking forward to hearing the results from the RR.
I was surprised how easily it started. All we did was pre-heat it with a blower fire for most of the day and then turned it over manually to get oil pressure - the video picks it up from the ignition being switched on. Because I was waiting for the TPS to arrive, I probably double and triple checked everything, so thee was a good chance it was going to run.
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by KingK_series » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:11 pm

David wrote:Time for an update

I am using a Caterham branded Titan sump that I purchased in my 2010 upgrade. I covered it on a previous blog so won't go into detail here. It pre-dates the Raceline sump that most people use today and does not provide ground clearance of that unit, but otherwise works well. But there is a weakness in the connection to the pump which needs to be checked: a 'top hat' arrangement provides 2 O-rings that are squashed between the sump but the pump. If the oil pump is ever removed, you need torque it up while it is held up towards the the sump to guarantee a good position and seal.


Image

Image



The cams I'm using are Ultimate Performance's UL39 & UL40. The choice was made purely on Simon's recommendation for the spec I wanted.

With the initial timing set using the slots on the cams at TDC (Simon felt this was the best way to start), I checked the valve timing with a dial gauge. If you have ever done this you'll understand how difficult it is to get your head round the readings. But after checking a few text books, it began to make sense - they are around 60 80 80 50, with duration of 320 (inlet) and 310 (exhaust). The textbooks suggest this will give a useful RPM range of 3500 - 9000 with peak power somewhere around 8500. Somewhat wilder than I expected but we'll see how it goes .


Image



With the engine sealed up I began fitting the auxiliaries. I had thought about fitting the alternator on the exhaust side but, as the smaller pulley worked fine with the original set-up, I decided to keep it that way. Next will be the roller barrels overhaul and fitting.


Image



As planned the barrels were overhauled and fitted today. I was surprised at how poor the condition was that they were in, mainly with wear and corrosion. They've done about 5K miles - and they will certainly be past their best by 10K.


Image



They are, however, a very simple device once the end plates are removed and it was not long before they were done and fitted to the engine. But I did make the classic mistake of not removing the TPS first, so now it's scrap .


Image



Setting them up is not difficult. Using a 6mm rod to hold them open, the end stops are adjusted in turn to take up the slack. It is worth saying that the 6mm gap at the front is not the 'throttle' opening - that all happens at the back (engine) side. This procedure effectively set the barrel to 'just' closed. There is also a bleed hole which will be adjusted to get idle flow correct when I'm up and running.


Image



Well, the engine is now finished . the final touch was to fit the rather nice flywheel and twin plate Super Clutch from SB Developments.


Image


The twin plate super clutch is thicker and needs a rounded clutch release bearing. This was supplied with a new release mechanism by SB developments as part of the clutch kit. It also has a spacer to provide the correct position. The hardest part was making up the hoses.

Image



The engine went in today - a fairly standard job with no real issues but the clutch does feel rather 'firm'. I'm sure I'll get used to it. All the fluids are in but the TPS didn't arrive, so couldn't start it up - maybe Monday


Image



The big moment came! With my son supervising me (and keeping me right) the start button was pushed. I was surprised that it fired instantly. Although I stopped the video by accident, I continued to run it for about 20 minutes. I will not run again until it is on the rolling road next week - so that it's run-in under load.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrksbKEXfFI
Afew comments


- have you machined the engine mating surfaces together to be 100% perpendicular to the crank ?

- if not you need to look at the clutch spec -

personally I have had a world of trouble with Superclutch..... the owner of the company in the USA was a former Quarter Master employee,,,, who left and started his own company - I found him unbelievavbly arrogant and conceited when his clutch plates spun on my gearbox splines,

-the truth is if you buy a QuarterMaster clutch ..... surprisingly similar to 'Superclutch".... hmmmmmm ...You get the picture....[?} you get a very useful spec sheet which states very clearly the tolerance for out of perpendicular for one of "their" clutches is 0.02mm.... fail to achieve that.... and I guarantee a OEM engine will not. and the clutch is being twisted ... that puts a strain on ... well everything, but including mainshaft splines..... result on my engines - the clutch friction plate spun and stuck on the mainshaft, fubaring the change and requiring the gearbox to have to be cut off the engine [and trashed] to sort. Of copurse it didn't help that the Superclutch Rover splines all had the wrong pressure angle on them,, but a catasstrophe......

Change to Quarter Master, the original, top dollar mnachining, top dollar spec sheets, and advice, top dollar support, top dollar results

the opposite of Suprecluch and their arrogant, incompetant stupidity in every way,,,,, and I've had so many peoplew tell me the same story/.

be aware, not least the clutch spec requirements in terms of straightness, - remember if the crank and gearbox mainshaft are not perfectly aligned they are massively straining all the bearings in both engine and box, even if the cluch doesnt freeze...
Last edited by KingK_series on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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David
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:13 pm

Thanks for you comments but, on one of the other forums I've posted on, the Superclutch have been highly praised.

To quote Superclutch's data sheet 'Critical for durability' - concentricity within 0.006'' / 0.15mm, maximum out of parallelism 0.002'' / 0.05mm which is a lot less than you have quoted. As you know, I tend check most things carefully where I can. In this case the clutch alignment seemed very good with the Titan bell-housing and Caterham gearbox being designed for motor sport applications and a precision fit. If what you are saying is true I would have expected difficulty in fitting the clutch, but the gearbox slid on with no problems at all. The drive chain was then rotated 180 degrees, removed, and refitted, again no stiffness or any problem ( in fact I think I checked it about 4 or 5 times in different positions while checking the MIC and MAT).

Time will tell though.
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by Kinger » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:25 pm

David,

Really have been enjoying your build thread, I'm loving the attention to detail both in the build and in your write up.

Looking forward to seeing it on track, will it have its first track outing before SIDC in March.

Cheers

Graham

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:44 pm

Kinger wrote:David,

Really have been enjoying your build thread, I'm loving the attention to detail both in the build and in your write up.

Looking forward to seeing it on track, will it have its first track outing before SIDC in March.

Cheers

Graham
Yep, the SIDC is the first one I booked, but might try and get some testing earlier if the weather is OK. :)
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by KingK_series » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:18 am

David wrote:Thanks for you comments but, on one of the other forums I've posted on, the Superclutch have been highly praised.

To quote Superclutch's data sheet 'Critical for durability' - concentricity within 0.006'' / 0.15mm, maximum out of parallelism 0.002'' / 0.05mm which is a lot less than you have quoted. As you know, I tend check most things carefully where I can. In this case the clutch alignment seemed very good with the Titan bell-housing and Caterham gearbox being designed for motor sport applications and a precision fit. If what you are saying is true I would have expected difficulty in fitting the clutch, but the gearbox slid on with no problems at all. The drive chain was then rotated 180 degrees, removed, and refitted, again no stiffness or any problem ( in fact I think I checked it about 4 or 5 times in different positions while checking the MIC and MAT).

Time will tell though.
So have you measured that off the crank path?.

the mainshaft will always slide inside the friction plate shafts - until you bolt up the box - then if its off the clutch release will feel stiff - obviously because its binding.

this is not a problem on single plate sprung OEWM clutches - they have a tolerance of a mile, because of that spring, unfortunately the springs break which is why I hate them... seen it on Ks OEMs on "UPRATED APs' seen it on Honda K20s.


- think about it - how many parts of the engine is the box bol;ted to?

i'm betting.... block...!

sump......2?


are they doweled?

were they faced together? having been doweled? on a jig through the crank path

- because that is the only way you will get them in the same plane, perpendicular to the crank path and anywhere near 0.05 let alone tighter.


- I've seen "PRo " setups with their drivers in tears for clutch problems......

and I had it up to my neck, with nothing but useless advice from Superclutch, though they did eventually re manufacture 8 friction plates with new splines to get that right -


anyway if you have any funny noises, if the clutch feels heavy, or if the plate spins on the shaft you know where to look....


incidentally, machining the block/crank carrier/sump for absolute flatness and perpendicular to crank is a basic blueprinting tenet, - I do it even for single plate clutches and it will be done on Stu's 160 Sport engine even though that will use a nasty AP sprung clutch [OEM type]

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by KingK_series » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:37 am

David wrote:Thanks for you comments but, on one of the other forums I've posted on, the Superclutch have been highly praised.

To quote Superclutch's data sheet 'Critical for durability' - concentricity within 0.006'' / 0.15mm, maximum out of parallelism 0.002'' / 0.05mm which is a lot less than you have quoted. As you know, I tend check most things carefully where I can. In this case the clutch alignment seemed very good with the Titan bell-housing and Caterham gearbox being designed for motor sport applications and a precision fit. If what you are saying is true I would have expected difficulty in fitting the clutch, but the gearbox slid on with no problems at all. The drive chain was then rotated 180 degrees, removed, and refitted, again no stiffness or any problem ( in fact I think I checked it about 4 or 5 times in different positions while checking the MIC and MAT).

Time will tell though.

from above

'The engine went in today - a fairly standard job with no real issues but the clutch does feel rather 'firm'. I'm sure I'll get used to it. All the fluids are in but the TPS didn't arrive, so couldn't start it up - maybe Monday"


- .........

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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by David » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:45 am

I must confess, I did not measure how perpendicular the bell-housing mounting surface was to the crank, but have just done that on the engine that has come out. It was within .015 mm so well within the spec for the clutch (0.05 mm) and I am happy Ford can achieve the level of alignment required. Concentricity is more difficult to measure but it is doweled, and I guess for that reason. My comment about the clutch being firm was the spring pressure - the smaller diameter of the clutch (compared to OE) means higher spring pressures are required (albeit mitigated to some extent by two plates).
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Re: Duratec in detail

Post by hiscot » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:20 am

Thanks for sharing David , enjoyed that , looking forward to the trackday vids :thumbsup
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