Preventing HGF.....

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:10 pm

Best way to do it??

Any parts that i can change (within reason) to try and ensure it doesnt happen to the new car....?? Its done 40k with no problems so far..

Had the Eliseparts Radiator in it and im gettin Ali to change all my belts for me.. Want to keep it as new as possible!!!

BiggestNizzy · Post by **BiggestNizzy** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:31 pm

Remote thermostate
don't boot it until it's warm
cross fingers
hope for best

thinfourth · Post by **thinfourth** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:52 pm

Change the expansion tank cap every year for a new one so you can maintain system pressure

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:47 pm

change the head gasket every month

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:12 pm

would http://www.eliseparts.com/shop/index.ph ... cts_id=250 this make any difference at all to the car?

and is it a hard job to add new parts to? i'd obv ask Ali to do any work but not sure how many man hours are involved...

steve_weegie · Post by **steve_weegie** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:48 pm

sure, if it blows then by all means replace it with a top quality one but if it aint broke.....

Plastic dowels were the cause of many a K series HGF but stopped getting used in favour of the steel ones. IIRC you've got the same car as me? S2 135 ST?

I'm on 60k with no issues, and no plans to change the HG!

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:10 pm

My new one is just a standard Sept 02 S2 ST.....

I think the same about if its not broke dont fix it etc - but at the same time the worry has always been there for me!!!

Hopefully i'll have no problems tho

hiscot · Post by **hiscot** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:23 pm

prt. oil/water cooler and a must is a slow warm up
i use a oil temp gauge and its approx 5+ miles before the oil is at temp with the above spec ( depnt on weather )

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:26 pm

I think the new Rover gasket kit now has a shim type head saver in the kit with the gasket. I believe that this prevents water from contacting the head and turning it porous should (when) the gasket fails. Mine's on 46,500 miles and still fine. HGF is by no means a def. outcome (walshys has done 200,000miles and i think has only only had 1 or 2 gaskets - not a bad average, despite his best attempts...), but as others have said, gradual heating is important ie ten mins idling/below 2,500rpm.

I'll prob also fit the PRRT on the next coolant change, but I'd be tempted to leave an engine alone till you get problems. Keep an eye on the temps, and when it happens you should catch it early. Worst case scenario, new engine = £500 for VVC or less for standard K. Otherwise, a head skim is cheap, stick the new gasket kit in, and away you go (so to speak

)

Edin430 · Post by **Edin430** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:45 pm

Good good.... Covered under warranty until April but i know my luck!!

May = problems

Might wait till the winter months are out the way and then do the new gasket and belts all at once... Keep it fresh

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:59 am

I would not change the gasket on spec, its a big ish job and it isn't broken. AA parts and labour will cover it, then if it does go you are still covered.

HGF is not always just failure of the gasket, it is caused by something, supposedly mostly to do with the engine construction, how the engine heats up and the coolant system. Landrover acknowledged the cooling system was crap and introduced the PRRT to fix it.

The MLS gasket is a Landrover item and IIRC requires a serious skim as its quite thick, also from what I have read, while it might fix the porous head it is less tolerant to wonky liner heights. Supposedly the Rover one is the best for dealing with this.

PRRT it, then leave it alone, don't open it if you don't need to! When you do open it then pay a man to make it better....

Tom: Your tempting fate there!

Reminds me of the Viz immortality bracelet: "I've had one for ages and I'm still not dead!"

BTW as I understand it the coolant doesn't cause the head to go porous, the head is already porous from the crap casting and the water gets through this porosity, the MLS prevents the fire rings digging in and finding the porous bits under the surface.

HTH
Rich

Lawrence · Post by **Lawrence** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:47 am

RICHARDHUMBLE wrote:
BTW as I understand it the coolant doesn't cause the head to go porous, the head is already porous from the crap casting and the water gets through this porosity, the MLS prevents the fire rings digging in and finding the porous bits under the surface.

HTH
Rich

My understanding is that it's the localised boiling of coolant on the head surface that causes the head recessions, hence the shims purpose.

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:56 am

The MLS has much the same fire ring design as the standard gasket.

IMHO head gasket failure occurs for four reasons:

plastic dowels
fluctuating coolant temperature differential across block
poor elastomer seal
uneven/negative liner heights

The later type OEM gasket kits use metal dowels and a better elastomer seal so shouldn't suffer the same. These are fitted as standard to all S2s, however you might find cars with 135 kits actually have older type gaskets depending on who fitted them (if you got the dealer to fit it, and they sourced an older type kit from stock, for example). Also once you've had HGF and got a non-dealer to fix it you could have just about any gasket.

The right way to fix the coolant fluctuations is PRT, but it's a PITA to fit.

The uneven/negative liner heights can only be fixed by machining the liners and block face. For a 40K smoker it's debatable whether it's worth the effort (you might as well go 1.9 at the same time

).

Cheers,
Robin

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:01 am

So the coolant boils through the surface into the porous casting?
Sorry Tom, I stand corrected!

What about around the exhaust ports? I would imagine that this is the hottest point (assuming a functioning cooling system) as the water channels around there are pretty small, if it was going to boil I would think it would go there first rather than around the head surface.

Or is it because the head surface is cut into the casting already, reducing the thickness of the outer "skin" making it more vulnerable there?

Its too early for my head to be able to cope with this level of thinking...

Leave the head, fit the PRRT is still my suggestion, and annual coolant cap change (£3), followed by an oil/water heat exchanger.

BiggestNizzy · Post by **BiggestNizzy** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:32 am

surely the coolant shouldn't boil ? unless something has seriously gone t1t's up ? the system is under pressure so it shouldn't.

As far as I was aware HGF is due to porosity in casting / wrong liner heights /and temp fluctuations across the head when the thermostate opens all the lovely cold water from the rad and the big long pipes that run the length of the car flood straight into the head causing it to contract and move about (plastic dowels didn't help) this warping and constant hot/cold (which softens the aluminium) allows water/oil to squeeze it's way past the gasket and voila HGF. also on the K-series tolerances are tight it is a small engine (originally 1.4) so there is little margin for error.

awaiting for correction