Metal Matrix Composite VS Cast Iron Brake Systems

[Pedro]

Hi all,

I am looking for advise on which Braking System is best for the Lotus Elise S1..?

I find the MMC brakes I have quite heavy, and I am not very confident that they would stop the car in a rush if required. The pads & disks look to be in good condition, but I feel like I am almost standing on the brakes to stop. Is this normal for these types of brakes, or do they need bleeding perhaps..?

I am also considering taking the car up to Knockhill on trackdays, & would like the best brakes for both track & road, and wonder if perhaps the Cast Iron brakes would be better, or perhaps better yet, the Aluminium Belled, Drilled & Grooved Disks with the mintex pads..?

Any advise much appreciated,

Pete

[DJ]

Pete

I would suggest getting your brakes bled first if you don't know when this was last done. I got mine done on Friday as also didn't feel my brakes were that great. Some people do it themselves but it only cost me about £30 all in, including fluid for a garage to do it and I can't believe the difference.

Afraid I don't know much about which discs are best, but someone else will no doubt be along in a minute...

[Pedro]

Hi DJ,

Did you notice a good difference after the brakes were bled..?

Think this is probably a good idea, do you or anyone know if this requires any special care, or can I just ask my usual mechanic to do this..?

Cheers,
Pete

[Pedro]

Thanks DJ,

Think you answered my questions already.

Good advice, thanks again

Pete

[Rich H]

IMHO
MMC = awesome in the dry, lethal in the wet
Iron = OK in all conditions.

You will be able to sell the MMC pads and discs for more than a new set of irons and pads. Tut will probably make you an offer for them.

I did have MMCs on the front and irons on the back for a while, coming off a wet motorway would be exciting. push the pedal - nothing, push harder - nothing, push harder still - nothing, that lorry's getting close! - nothing, ohmyfcukinggod-I've stopped.... but I didn't have splash guards either.

[hiscot]

pete
it sounds like you have normal iron disc pads fitted to your mmc rotors
take them out and if your lucky they may still have the pt numbers on the rear face the right ones if i remember are bendix and start with bdx or bxd ( not sure on later eliseparts ones ?)
i tried using mintex pads on mine and had the same problems, once you have the right pads fitted they are awsome
the wet weather delay is also right, but in the rain keep your distance and get used to braking twice once to dry off once to stop even washing or left out in the rain takes caution untill you are used to them ps i dont have splash gaurds either
but i like them so much i have now got a spare set

[woody]

The having to stand on the brakes is more likely down to the lack of servo assistance with the brakes. This makes the pedal seem a lot harder and the brakes seem less responsive to the uninitiated. IMO its superior due to the better feel, and lower weight.

[BiggestNizzy]

MMC disks are also lighter so you have less unsprung weight, and thats a good thing

[Pedro]

Thanks Guys,

I think I'll stick with the MMC brakes for now, I think Woody is right in that there is no servo assistance, and may just feel heavy to the newly initiated. They do stop the car, but do not feel as responsive as regular cars. I keep an extra distance from cars in front just in case tho

I'll try and check the pads, without taking them out hopefully

Might ask the garage on Sat to have a quick look if they have time, it's in for the ant-roll bushes & they said they might have time to check the Geo too, so not sure if they will manage to check the brakes too.

It's a 1997 S1 Elise, with about 67,000 on the clock, it feels really quick, and still looks great, but I feel the handling is not very good & I don't feel confident in the car at speed, due to the brakes & handling.

I really want to get the car in condition so that I can confidently race it, & take it up the track at Knockhill

Any advice appreciated,
Pete

[simon]

Any advice appreciated

Get someone near to you with an Elise to have a quick drive. There's plenty people in Fife who could check it for you. Failing that, come to Knockhill on the 24th, there's an SIDC trackday on in the afternoon and there'll be plenty people there to have a quick look and you can get some passenger laps too

The brakes won't feel as responsive until you get used to them so it might just be that.

[steve_weegie]

Yea, they really come into their own on the track! You coming up to knockhill on the 24th? Plenty of us will be there & you're certainly welcome for a few pax laps with me.

[Pedro]

Superb,

Thanks for the invite guys, I'll defintately come up on the 24th Be good if I could maybe get a wee shot on the track too, just to take it easy & see how it feels compared to on the road. What time you guys heading up for..? Is there an entrance fee..?

Cheers,
Pete

[simon]

I think it's 12-4 and there's no entrance fee but you might be charged a fiver to hire a helmet unless you have your own. The day is fully booked I think but you could put your name on the reserve list if you wanted to go on. If you've only just bought the car though, might be an idea to get used to it on the road first, trackdays can be a little daunting first time out.

[Pedro]

Thanks Simon,

I'll definately be there Sat 24th @ 12. Yep just bought the car a couple o weeks back now. Might just watch this time, or take Steve up on his offer of a passenger ride

Do the track days get a bit heated then ..? I wonder if there are any track days for beginners, to get used to the track & learn the ropes..?

Cheers,
Pete

'97 Elise S1 - ongoing project spec

[Mikie711]

There's a novice track morning on the 24th at KH 9-11am £50. Don't know if it's full or not try giving them a call.