NLC - Help for a friend: geometry/steering

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:59 am

Hi guys,

I'm hoping some of the technical gurus on here can help with this . . .

One of my friends unfortunately reversed into a wall in her work carpark the other day causing damage to the nearside rear of her Honda Civic. It was very low speed (under 5mph) and was one of those annoying wee walls you just can't see. It has caused bodywork damage (needs new door skin and trim) and damaged the rear nearside tyre (which has now been replaced).

Due to the tyre damage, she got invoked her Honda AA assistance and they took it to Hyndland Honda for them to check the car and replace the tyre. The AA guy, Jo herself, and her boyfriend all drove the car briefly before it got taken away and the steering was normal. The AA guy never mentioned anything about steering or geometry being off, but asked for the Honda garage to replace the tyre and check the geometry/suspension/etc just in case.

I went with Jo to pick up the car on Saturday. Firstly, they put a different make of tyre on from the rest of the car. It has a completely different tread pattern and AFAIK you shouldn't mix makes/tread patterns across an axle. I argued this with them and they were having none of it.

However, the main problem is that when she drove away, her steering wheel is off to the left by about 30 degrees when she drives straight. The only time I've seen this happen is if a steering wheel is not locked when the geometry of the front wheels is checked. The Honda garage claim that they never did a geometry (even though the AA asked them to) and so it wasn't them.

They've taken the car back in this morning and are now claiming that it has rear subframe damage and the crossbeam/crossmember (??) is damaged. Even if that's true and such a low speed collision caused that, how the hell could that affect the geometry of the front wheels and put the steering off centre?

Furthermore, they told Jo the car was safe to drive and she has had her 7 year old daughter in it but are now saying it is completely unsafe to drive and should stay off the road. They also now admit they should have checked more (like they were asked to!) when the car was dropped off.

So, can someone please explain:

- What is a crossbeam/crossmember?
- Could such a low speed collision which was basically a scrape along the side of the car which happened to catch the tyre cause rear subframe damage? BTW, there was no damage to the wheel, just the tyre.
- How can rear damage like this knock the steering out?

Hyndland Honda are refusing to accept liability for this, but 3 independent people are certain the steering was perfect when the car was dropped off, so this has happened while it was in their care. I've told Jo to call Honda Customer Service and make a formal complaint (and mentioning the service manager by name) about the following:

- They've put a different tyre on across an axle
- They did not check the things the AA told them to when it was dropped off
- They have damaged something that has knocked the steering out while the car was in their possession
- They have been negligent in telling Jo the car was safe to drive on Saturday and now saying it's definitely not.

Any help would be really appreciated!

Cheers,
D

tuscan_thunder · Post by **tuscan_thunder** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:28 pm

they're scamming. Talk to trading standards/citizens advice and tell the garage this.

a scrape like that is very unlikely to have bent a cross member (which is usually a rather hefty bit of metal). A wheel would bend WAY before a crossmember.

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:12 pm

Cheers. The garage are trying to now take nothing to do with it. They're trying to give her keys back and get rid of her even though they said the car is unsafe to drive.

Her boyfriend is on his way over to kick up a stink about it. I might go and join them and ask them to explain to me how a crossmember could be bent when there's no damage to the wheel!

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:50 pm

The service manager has now put his hands up and admitted they didn't check what they should have and that they should not have let the car out of the garage. They still claim not to know why the steering is out, but they're going to sort that free of charge.

It's amazing what a quick complaint to their superiors does!

D

fd · Post by fd » Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:29 pm

If the rear geo is incorrect (and spanking it off a wall/kerb could do that) then the thrust angle could well be incorrect and this would cause the steering to be non central . . .

The thrust angle is the combined drive direction of all 4 wheels (very simplisticlly).

So - you may be correct and they don't know what they are talking about . . . or it could be the other way round . . .

Rather than speculate with the armchair mechanics - get them to check the front and rear geo . . . even better, pay them to do it and give you the report . . .

I'm as sceptical about garages as the next man (if not more so) but if you don't even have the most basic understanding of how suspension systems work it's probably best to let them help you rather than accusing them of breaking the car your friend drove into a wall . . .

Fd

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:54 am

Cheers FD, but the main point is that the steering was central when it left the scene of the accident and was returned non-central by the garage a day later. I'm not going to go accusing people when I'm no expert in suspension systems, but steering just doesn't miraculously go off-centre by itself!

As they're now agreeing to sort the geo (she's got the print out but I've not seen it yet), then that side of things is sorted.

My main complaint is that they told her two days ago that it was safe to drive the car (with her 7 year old child in it!!!) and now say it's not. That's negligence if you ask me!

D

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:01 pm

Dezzy,

Hyndland have recently been bought over by Pheonix Honda, any prob,ems in future try speaking to John Thomson, he is the guy in charge of all the service managers for the group.
You can get him either at Stirling Honda 01786 406200 or on his mobile 07872021347 tell him you you got his details from Kenny at Type R Scotland.

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:28 pm

Thanks Kenny. Will pass on his details to my friend in case she has any further problems.

D

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:35 am