Ignition with Emerald

[Mikie711]

If you have seen my winter re-build post ten you can see I have changed the ignition to what is more or less the same as a 340R. Single coil pack the fires cylinders 1 & 3 then 2 & 4, wasted spark ignition. The problem is I seam to have burnt out a coil pack as first it went to 3 cylinders with number 4 not firing then none firing.
For those that know, the coil is connected to pins 5 and 25 of the emerald and in the Distributor/Crank sensor options it is set on 36-4 rover (2) and the reference position is 110deg BTDC. On the ignition outputs options it's set as wasted spark and the drivers are assigned. Is there anything here that would cause the coil to burn out. For instance are both sides firing at the same time or will the emerald "know" to fire on side then the other. Any other suggestions are more that welcome as I don't want to burn out another coil pack trying to get this to work. Coil is mounted on an exige bracket at the end of the inlet cam ladder BTW.

couple of screen shots





Mike

[robin]

Hi Mike,

In theory the coils could burn out if the ECU turns on the output and leaves it turned on. However, I would be surprised if this could happen while the engine is running.

On the S2 coil packs, at least, the high voltage coil is double ended - both spark plugs must be fitted and grounded at all times, otherwise the energy has nowhere to go and eventually you overheat the coil pack and melt the insulation on the windings - game over.

So, if there's a chance you've run this one with either end disconnected, that could well have broken it.

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

Thing is Robin, the car was running fine. Been out a couple of times to get it up to temp and came back, re-aligned the TPS then it started running on 3 cylinders, then none. Check the wiring last night and it's all OK. Thought it might be the crank trigger, but the cylinders were wet when I pulled the plugs so it looks like it's getting fuel, which it wouldn't if the crank sensors was shagged.
\One odd thing that did happen is according to the lambda sensor it was very very lean, 18-20 AFR but I put this down to it not burning any fuel.
Hopefully a dodgy coil pack and a new one will sort it out as I can't see anything that would cause it to burn out like this, but at £100 a pop I don't want to fit a new one and have the same thing happen again because it's something I have missed.

[robin]

Sounds to me like it's flooding the engine by overfuelling, perhaps because your TPS realignment has gone wrong and it now thinks you're on load site 15 when actually you're on load site 0/1

What makes you think the coil packs are actually duff? Something I saw that was neat was a bank of four old spark plugs with the "nuts" welded to a steel bar which you could then ground with a jump lead. Then you can attach your four spark plug leads to your test bank and crank the engine and see what's what.

You can tell whether or not the CPS is working - the light on the emerald goes from red to green when the emerald syncs up with your chosen flywheel pattern (36-4 Rover 2 in this case). If it doesn't go and stay green during cranking (e.g. it stays red or flicks green/red) then the CPS or CPS wiring are screwed.

In my experience the Emerald is as flaky as a box of cornflakes. Keep dated backup copies of both the ECU configuration file and map files - don't assume that each and every file will be error or corruption free - never overwrite a saved file - just create a new one instead; also, just because a config and/or map can be loaded to the emerald, doesn't mean it's good. So get a golden baseline map and ECU configuration file and squirrel them away. Whenever some weird sh*t like this happens, break out the golden files and see if the problem "goes away".

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

The reason I think the coil pack is on the blink is because I took out the plugs and turned the engine over and no spark. The emerald light does stay green so not the crank sensor. As for over fueling, will check this out, but I went back to a base map I had and it still wouldn't start. That would be the map I used to start the engine in the first place. Going to try it all again tomorrow, just to be sure, but 90% sure it's the coil pack that's toast. Was just wondering if it was something in the settings that caused it's early demise or if it was just rubbish to begin with, £60 as opposed to £115 for a proper Bosch.

[robin]

If the plugs are soaked, maybe you won't see a good spark - remember what I said earlier too - don't run without both plugs on each coil pack properly grounded, otherwise you won't see a spark and it will actually break the coil pack!

I know these things break over time but you have to think that's a heat cycling/soak issue - there is no way a new one should break in minutes of run time. The way the Emerald drives the coil means that it shouldn't be left energised for prolonged periods - provided the emerald is working properly, I don't see it being an issue.

BTW, if you still have the original coil you could try that (obviously you won't be able to run the engine, but you should get every other spark out of it, IYSWIM).

Cheers,
Robin

[Victor Meldrew]

If you have seen my winter re-build post ten you can see I have changed the ignition to what is more or less the same as a 340R. Single coil pack the fires cylinders 1 & 3 then 2 & 4, wasted spark ignition. The problem is I seam to have burnt out a coil pack as first it went to 3 cylinders with number 4 not firing then none firing.
For those that know, the coil is connected to pins 5 and 25 of the emerald and in the Distributor/Crank sensor options it is set on 36-4 rover (2) and the reference position is 110deg BTDC. On the ignition outputs options it's set as wasted spark and the drivers are assigned. Is there anything here that would cause the coil to burn out. For instance are both sides firing at the same time or will the emerald "know" to fire on side then the other. Any other suggestions are more that welcome as I don't want to burn out another coil pack trying to get this to work. Coil is mounted on an exige bracket at the end of the inlet cam ladder BTW.

couple of screen shots





Mike

Thought you were running a DTA system with traction control?

[Mikie711]

Nah, Emerald mate always has been. Separate data logger with launch and traction control. How did you get on yesterday?

[Victor Meldrew]

Nah, Emerald mate always has been. Separate data logger with launch and traction control. How did you get on yesterday?

Pretty good.. will do a write up later and post up the pictures and video.

[Mikie711]

Robin, plugs dry, and properly grounded. Can't really try the other coil as the connector is different now. Will have a look and see if I have a male 3 way plug to make up an adapter. New coil on it's way anyway as I am really beginning to run out of time. Car off to Ricky's tomorrow (towed not driven unfortunately) and parts being delivered to his. Hopefully be sorted in time for Fintray HC. Be fun competing in a car I haven't driven, adds a whole new dimension .

[Mikie711]

Pretty good.. will do a write up later and post up the pictures and video.

Let me guess................. 3rd in class behind that bloody Exige!! (hope your reading this Graeme)

[Victor Meldrew]

Pretty good.. will do a write up later and post up the pictures and video.

Let me guess................. 3rd in class behind that bloody Exige!! (hope your reading this Graeme)

Yep, best of the rest..

[Mikie711]

The plot thickens!! It isn't the coil or it might still be the coil but it ain't dead but isn't running on all cylinders. Or the coil is goosed and overheats after a short period. Kinda out of my hands now but once I find out if the new coil solves the problem then I will know if it's a dodgy one or not IYSWIM.

[2F45T4U]

you might have too much dwell. so the coil is energised longer than it needs to be and will cause it to over heat/burn out.

[robin]

Very unlikely to be dwell with electronic ignition controlled by emerald - it's preset to something tiny (but adequate!).

Cheers,
Robin