S1 and Emerald ECU, straight swap?

[2F45T4U]

K-series (year 2000)
ive got a brand new emerald sitting for another project we've got ongoing.
I didnt realise the Emerald had a Rover type connector. Am i correct in saying this?

If this is the case, is it a simple swap of ECUs? this wont be a permanent mod im just curious to see how well it will go so i dont want to be playing about doing wiring mods.

Ive got the standard Cobra alarm, will this cause a problem? i cant remember whether it ties in to the Rover ECU or if it just O/Cs the ign/fuel pump circuit.

Cheers.

[Mikie711]

As long as it isn't a VVC it will be a straight swap. Never bothered my cobra alarm, but then it didn't really work properly anyway.
Forgot to add, the immobiliser will link with the emerald and you'll obviously need a suitable map other than that plug and play.

[2F45T4U]

no VVC
Map was my next question after i could be sure it was worth fitting.

engine is standard apart from air filter, what performance increase could i expect (if any)?
and does anyone have a decent tune for a std 1.8K? i found a few on the net but would rather have one that someone has run and can give a bit of feedback on it.

[Mikie711]

IMHO it isn't worth the effort for a standard engine. Unlikely you will better the standard map, quite the opposite in fact. Only comes into it's own with mods to the engine.

[2F45T4U]

have you had experience with this setup before or is it purely an opinion?

I appreciate that greater gains are to be had with a modded engine, but for a 10min swap and a download of a map, even for a 3-5hp increase and a bit more crisp response would be worth the while. Its not going to cost me anything.

Performance gain question was really out of curiosity, the main issue is that its a straight swap. While its on i have a couple of other bits i can fit once its running.

I think the standard map is quite conservative and pretty flat in places. These flat spots probably due to emissions/fuel economy and could be ironed out with a half decent tune but il know better once its on.

if im talking crap, please discuss.....

[Mikie711]

Yes I have used an emerald before on my S1. Have a look here for all you need to know about the K series and here for some of my adventures with my S1.
The trick would be getting a really good map. If you managed that then you may see a small improvement. On a bog standard engine there is a lot more restrictions than just the map. Bear in mind that during development car makers spend 100's of hours on engine mapping and the Emerald is not the most sophisticated ECU out there. It is fairly simple to use and is good value for money but was designed primarily to take advantage of any engine mods done, posted head, better exhaust manifold, throttle bodies, cams etc to be able to map the engine to take advantage of them.
Even with a half descent map unless you tweek it on a rolling road I doubt you will get any gains and may end up worse off as not all engines are the same even standard ones so one map doesn't fit all IYSWIM.
As you have the emerald already then give it a go and see how you get on but having done exactly the same thing myself unless you were bolting on some other mods to the engine I wouldn't bother.

[2F45T4U]

thanks. i realised when i asked if you knew from experience that it looked a bit wide of me. i just asked because generally sorting opinion from fact can be difficult with tuning subjects.
At least i know it fits. like i said ive got a couple of bolt on goodies that id bought before we started the other project. so ecu ended up getting used on that first ( dth bods and a decent lum) . being as simple a swap as it seems i might get away with the one ecu and swap it between cars. didnt want to go dicking about with wiring until i pulled the engine out and put my rebuilt lump in. Access to a dyno isnt an issue but i wasnt going to try tuning the balls out of a std engine. hence why i was asking about a map going spare.
the resolution is adequate for what we need.

cheers

[Gourlay83]

I've just installed my first Emerald on my Caterham SLR.

A few things to note.

The calibration of the ecu needs to be set-up (which flywheel and ignition set-up etc) you can do this manually or get a file to install from Emerald.

You can adjust everything in a Emerald which for me had it's good points and bad, it's not plug and play and will take a fair bit of time to get the ECU set-up correctly especially the cold start nonsense.

If you get a wideband, you can get the fueling sorted out on the road and have a play with ignition on the dyno. It will give you some gains, but I personally wouldn't want to move away from the standard ECU unless I had to.

My 2p

Alan

[kerryxeg]

Ricky Gauld mapped my Emerald, he had plenty practice with emeralds and did a great job in a couple of hours. Well worth considering if you want an alternative.

[2F45T4U]

Thanks for the pointers. This is by no means the first ECU installation and tune ive done. ive got wideband and datalogging gear and access to a dyno for timing.
I just wanted to know if it fitted into the std ecu plug and would cause problems with the alarm. I would have checked myself, but im at work and will be a while before im home again to see.
Its kind of inspired me again to spend some time on it and maybe just go the whole hog and drop the rebuilt engine in and fit everything together.

Your input has been helpful.

Cheers,

[Victor Meldrew]

Depending on the version and if you have a wide band lambda fitted, (more cost) then they can effectively be set up map themselves... or at least make corrections after a few miles dependant. I had to apply the corrections twice before the map was tightened up.

Not worth it on a standard car.. spend the money on a Walshy day..

[2F45T4U]

FYI,

I went to plug in the Emerald today to use as a diagnostic but just realised there is not internal MAP sensor.

So no, a K6 Emerald it is not a 'plug-and-play' straight swap with a std S1 1.8K

still able to read sensor inputs though.

Cheers

[Shug]

Doesn't use the MAP sensor for normal K maps is the reason. My DTHTB'd one just uses TPS. So it'd run it fine without a MAP sensor. In fact, the only Emerald installations that do use a MAP sensor AFAIK are forced induction ones (for obvious reasons) You really don't require MAP on an N/A engine in all honesty.

[2F45T4U]

you are correct. DTH TBs no you dont, as youd use alpha-n with the TPS for load.
but a std speed/density plenum setup without using MAP or MAF for load and TPS for transients equals a pretty poor drive.

without knowing what this map was installed on what setup, its not a straight swap.

[Shug]

you are correct. DTH TBs no you dont, as youd use alpha-n with the TPS for load.
but a std speed/density plenum setup without using MAP or MAF for load and TPS for transients equals a pretty poor drive.

without knowing what this map was installed on what setup, its not a straight swap.

Perhaps, but it'd run and work fine - hence I'd disagree and say it is (just to be pedantic). You can swap it with a standard K series map installed and it will run fine, with a proper map installed in the ECU for the engine, there's no need to have the MAP sensor there in N/A IMO. Understand the theory, but in the real world, there's no appreciable difference. No need or benefit running an Emerald on a standard engine anyway, so largely a moot point.

With hotter cams, you'd be disregarding the MAP anyway thanks to the pulsing in the plenum stuffing up the readings it takes. LOT series cars are mandated to a single TB and run mega hairy cams with no MAP. That's the real reason for using an Emerald anyway.