Scottish Elises

Was driving home yesterday from work and my 2002 S2 Elise started overheating (110 C) and the rev's were all over the place. Pulled over and checked and it was out of coolant. Walked to a nearby farm and filled up some bottles, topped it back up and started driving again. The temperature kept climbing up so was faced with the decision of risking driving home in traffic, with nowhere to pull over or driving back to work and either waiting for the traffic to die down or ditching the car there. Decided to go back to work and by the time I got back there (5 minute drive) the water I had previously filled up had gone (not good).

Took it to a garage down the road in Dyce. They confirmed this afternoon that the head gasket has gone. When asked for a quote they said it would be 12-16 hours labour and that total cost wouldnt be less than £1400. They said that once when they have done it, it has taken them 27 hours to do.

I think they are taking the piss a bit with this? Am I being naive?

Phoned JD Motors in Insch (as I read before - possibly here - that they were goo with Elises) and he said rough cost would be about £800 (a bit more reasonable).

My dad called another garage in Aberdeen and they said it would be around £800 as well.

What is the rough cost to get it done and can anyone recommend any reputable garages around Aberdeen for me?

Oh and someone also mentioned John Duthie motors in Inch but I didn't manage to phone them before they closed.

JD Motors. The guy has a lotus himself and worked on loads. That's the going rate i'm afraid.

Usual caveats apply - you needed to know why it went to prevent it happening again.

Search, if you haven't already, for hgf and loads of info will appear.

Best of luck.

Gav.

Edit - the lads at JDs aren't able to get the head harness tested. This is possibly a must if its been badly overheated. I'm not aware of any garages up here that will. I think there's a place in Dundee that can.
If you were able to then it could be best to take it off yourself and send it to a specialist.

Cheers for the reply Gav. Whats the going rate, £800 or £1400?

J D did mine a couple years ago. Great guys. Skim was biggest expense from memory.

Should be, at most, 800. I dare say the other one is higher because they don't do a lot of Elises and it simply takes then longer to get the clam off.

Gav.

"Edit - the lads at JDs aren't able to get the head harness tested. This is possibly a must if its been badly overheated. I'm not aware of any garages up here that will. I think there's a place in Dundee that can.
If you were able to then it could be best to take it off yourself and send it to a specialist"

Easy to tell its soft if you ask me, if the fire ring of the gasket has eaten its way into the head, on the exh side, the head is soft.
if it has been hot, then its likly to be like this.

A skim should not be more that £36, that what i charge, and we skim about 5 K series a week, 70% of which have these rings to some degree.

Stu

CubanGav wrote:Should be, at most, 800. I dare say the other one is higher because they don't do a lot of Elises and it simply takes then longer to get the clam off.

Gav.

+1

Scotboy, Stu knows what he is doing and of course is also a Lotus owner. See whether or not the garage price changes if you were to organise head skimming yourself (through Stu) ?

Since you now have to go through the financial pain anyway, do some homework into PRT solutions (remote thermostats). 'Tis said that the therm is in the wrong place for the Elise engine (relates to pipework runs from rad etc I think), and using a CORRECTLY INSTALLED prt setup can much lessen the risk of future HGF. A few people on here have experimented with this...hard to say how much difference it makes but the physics seem fairly sound at any rate!

The AA allow 5-7 hours on labour for a HGF, a full gasket kit is <£70, skim £30-£40, so mine before Honda were always covered by the £500. John charges the AA £35 for labour.

However he can not do a hardness test, but then very few garages can.

tut

Seen them fixed for £500! £1400 is robbery;)

Last time my dad got a Rover 25 head off, skimmed for HGF bill was £380. Lotus access is obviously more difficult so add an extra couple of hours in and out and the number Mark quotes looks like a good expectation at £500-550. At £800 you can a lot more than the head checked out and sorted. At over a grand - well you do work in Aberdeen!

Good luck with the rrepairr.

Mark

It makes me so sad reading these posts ....... does no one understand still after all that has been written why so called "HGF" happens? or what needs to be done?


For starters - never ever skim a K series head, unless you arre trying to raise the CR and have prepped the firering area!!!!!!!

why would ANYONE skim a head on a failed engine and expect that to help........ IT WILL NOT, IN FACT IT WILL MAKE MATTERS WORSE

- why? because if the head has gone soft no amount of skimming or anything else will prevent another failure, plus you will open up the fireface which has been worked by very heavy plant at the factory to deliberately smear the surface rather than cut it, thus closing any casting imperfections. Skimming it on the lighter machines typical of aftermarket surfaces will only pluck the surface and open up casting faults.

Try this

K series gaskets do NOT fail the engine, the engine fails the gasket [occasionally] after prolonged overheating in the head.

This overheating happens because air gets trapped in the head, which then cannot get coolant to those areas.

How does that happen? - the thermal distortion issue that causes the head to bend off the block, causing gas, oil, and coolant leakage.

why is this problem so misunderstood? because the leakage happens for ages without people noticing, and until a problem becomes apparent. Then Garages/dealers do not have the kit to assess heads for terminal failure [ie gone soft] and frankly they want your business....


Anyone who thinks that following coolant loss into a cylinder or into the oil can simply go to a garage, have the head removed, stripped skimmed and refitted with a new gasket of either OE elastomer or MLS type is going to go straight back onto the road with the coolant leaking, until they suddenly get a major loss and wonder how the hell it happened again.



the solution;-

remove clam
remove head, strip and hardness test DO NOT SKIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
If the head is less than 95 brinnel on a recently calibrated modern digital hardness tester [ costing 2 grand which is why most garages/dealers do not have them] it is scrap.
If the head is above 95 brinnel - DO NOT SKIM, reassemble and reuse
Always strip short end, and DO DECK the block plus liner shoulders to straighten and give correct liner standproud of 4 thou
remove and replace plastic dowels with steel ones
remove old thermostat and replace with 82deg PRT.
use new OE longbolts
check and replace radiator for leaking plastic end caps, Proalloy do a good replacement.

This is the best that can be done without altering the water flow through the engine and a properly designed water pump,

these measures are therefore NOT a solution but will manage the problem sufficiently well to enjoy the engine and car.

Just want to say, there is absolutely no need to remove the rear clam to take the head off an Elise.

Dan

roadboy wrote:Just want to say, there is absolutely no need to remove the rear clam to take the head off an Elise.

Dan

There is if you want to take out the engine to strip and deck the block.