Exige V6 Upgrades

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C7Steve
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by C7Steve » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Do you know where Andy got the 311 set up?

I wonder if Craig got the geo specs from Graeme and the work was carried out across the road from CMC.


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rawsco
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by rawsco » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:25 pm

I’ve got the spec sheets for the Hoffman’s geo for the v6, it’s a fcuk nightmare on road cruising but brilliant on it. I’ll share if needed
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by campbell » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:18 am

I have a range of basic user experiences on Elises on different dampers over the last 20 years and the only thing I'd emphasise is the importance of preserving great road manners and the risk of wrecking them altogether. Unless you are willing to put up with a compromise at best, or will trailer the car to every track you do, then set the car up for how you use it the most.

Seems obvious, I know, but I think it's easy to get sucked into "what's optimum".

Of the range of dampers I've had personally, or experienced driving with, I'm actually very impressed with the Bilstein adjustables on my Club Racer S. Admittedly they are backed off to almost "full soft" as I've only had road use so far, but the car isn't crashy or uncomfortable for my level of road use (which way outstrips its use on track). Will of coure have to wait until next year to see what its track manners are like with them wound up a bit stiffer...!

Great fun to research though Steve. Good luck with the knowledge base :-)
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BigD
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by BigD » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:19 am

The change on my elise from the bilsteins to nitrons was amazing. Road manners were better as well as track. The bilsteins I always find don’t like high speed bumps and can thump over them. The nitrons were far better.

Likely upgrade for me when I can afford it.

Ross, I’d be interested in seeing the Hoffman setup suggestions.

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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by C7Steve » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 am

Ross,

I would like to see the Hoffmans set up too and also interested to see how much it differs compared to the 311 set up. It would be nice to see the results both side by side and for someone to explain what positives and negatives they both have.

Stu P,

Have you fitted your 1-way Nitrons yet? Winter project since the racing season will be over? Chop chop. :D



I am not looking to change my suspension because I think it’s bad, but I think it could be improved.


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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by campbell » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:09 am

That's good news, D
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by rawsco » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:33 am

OK Hoffman's Motorsport settings on my car are are follows.
Camber
F NS 1.25 OS 1.25
R NS 2.25 OS 2.25
1mm Camber Shim = 0.25degrees

Alignment (not sure of the unit here as its not noted on the spec sheet, alignment method is string box so I expect its mm)
F NS 0.5 out OS 0.5 out
R NS 1.5 in OS 1.5in

Recommended Target tyre Pressure regardless of temp
F 28psi
R 34psi

Ride Height
F NS 141 OS 140
R NS 149 OS 148

It does love to wander about the road, tram lines like a bugger but it feels pretty good when pressing on.
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by robin » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:53 am

The more camber the more track oriented. On the road increased camber translates into tramlining.

The less rear toe the more front end and the more oversteer. Great for track but perhaps riskier on the road.

In general, of course and all IMHO. Ymmv. Etc.
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C7Steve
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by C7Steve » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:26 am

Is that ride height not higher than standard?

I thought it was front 130mm Rear 135mm.

Hoffmans told me that they did not lower the car as such but added more rake. Not sure if they lowered the front or raised the rear though.


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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by rawsco » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:29 am

Rear setting was unchanged from the original, front was lowered 5mm so more rake as you suggest.
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by rawsco » Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:10 pm

I spent quit a bit of time trying to understand how and why different damping rates/configuration affect a cars balance, high speed damping and rebound is pretty simple to understand, so when I am talking about this I'm referring to slow speed damping. The point when it all clicked for me is when i read that the amount of friction a tyre has is proportional to the force pushing it into the ground. but not in a linear way, referred to as load sensitivity. Doubling the force does not double the friction available. Balance is influenced by the total friction available across both tyres in relation to each axle, let's take weight distribution out of the equation and assume its all square.

Consider a car transitioning from constant straight ahead to a right hand turn no brakes or acceleration. The car would roll around its roll centre to the outside, as this transition is happening the dampers are resisting this (low speed) roll. Stiff dampers resist it more soft dampers less. Now for me this was the second eureka moment, the force to resist the body roll is imparted onto something. The tyre to the road. So if you have equal damping rates front to rear then the balance stays neutral. If you stiffen the damping (compression) on the front more force goes through the front left tyre and less to the right front as the damper fights harder, by imparting more force to slow the roll more in relation to the rear.

Because the amount of friction available on an axle is the sum of both tyres across the axle and you cannot recover 100% of the friction lost on the right tyre due to unweighting by weighting the the left your total friction, during the transition is less than what it was and therefore you understeer, but only when the roll is in progress. Once the car takes a set and is no longer rolling the spring rates and other characteristics such as weight distribution define the balance.

Rebound works in a similar way, stiffening rebound slows the rate of roll by trying to lift the inside tyre off the ground. as gravity doesn't give up the cars weight is additionally supported by the outside tyre and damping force.

Obviously thats a very simple example and driving is much more complex but fundamentally thats why it happens. Force and load sensitivity.
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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by C7Steve » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:58 pm

Ferg,

Any development on your car geo change yet?


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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by Ferg » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:07 pm

Yes, couldn't get the bolts undone 😂. I'll be calling our favourite specialist tomorrow. 😉

I'm going for the 'maxing out' approach on the available adjustment front and rear. The consensus on most of the groups I've read is that this is a good mid level setup. You need to machine things to get to proper track stuff. 👍

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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by Ferg » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:34 pm

On another note. There were recent reports of very 'crashy' front end from single way Nitrons. Something to do with how the shocks valving react to sudden and short sharp shocks. Now this sounds normalish for Nitrons but maybe it's exacerbated on a heavier car like the V6? I'd definitely like simple single adjustment if possible. Still a long way away at this point though.

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Re: Exige V6 Upgrades

Post by Simon82 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:08 pm

Ferg wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:34 pm
On another note. There were recent reports of very 'crashy' front end from single way Nitrons. Something to do with how the shocks valving react to sudden and short sharp shocks. Now this sounds normalish for Nitrons but maybe it's exacerbated on a heavier car like the V6? I'd definitely like simple single adjustment if possible. Still a long way away at this point though.
I’ve been reading similar, have asked seriously lotus if their spec of 1 way damper suffers from this issue also. Doesn’t list the spec difference on his website so I have asked the question.
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