Entry speed into Duffus (& as % of v.max along pit strai

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:06 pm

What are you guys taking into Duffus - it's clearly much smoother, wider and quicker than the old days - I've heard references to taking it "flat"..

I'm braking a bit early from around 130 down to about 65-85 (tbc) but then find I can accelerate through mid bend into the braking zone for MacIntyres.

I know the BTCC route is above the kerbs straight line but I'm not brave enough for that..

are you braking into the turn or are you already back on the throttle..?

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:12 pm

i cant wait to here some of the claims on this one

Post by **Shug** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:17 pm

I think the flat references are from the apex of Duffus to McIntyres - some people lift at the left-hand kink at the bottom of the hill. Have no idea what my speed at apex is, never datalogged it and I'm looking elsewhere when I'm there

The kerbs aren't as scary as you think. The apex kerb at Duffus, I've always found to be perfect for lining the car up for the next left and to get the braking relatively straight for McIntyres.

From McIntyres, it's flat to the chicane.....

Post by **Shug** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:18 pm

shooomer wrote:130
Can't answer your question as I never driven on the new surface.

You've seen what he's driving, right?

GregR · Post by **GregR** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:25 pm

I did 65 in the wet at entry, and 75 ish in the dry with acceleration on the downslope. I got my knuckles rapped for accelerating during Duffus from Gordon who told me I should be sat at constant revs. However, I was also grabbing the wheel with one hand and changing to third on the entry at that point - all fine technique if you ask me

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:34 pm

mckeann wrote:i cant wait to here some of the claims on this one

aye - serious responses only - looking for tips as I know I'm being a bit cautious.. I'm sure a few sighted pax laps and you'll have me in shape..

can only brag on terminals - my lap times are nowt to phone home about and to be honest a stock Esprit could probably match that as her c'cooler wasn't working at the time. Eleanor's terminals should go up a fair bit but that of course doesn't dictate a good lap at KH. Besides a decent stock S300/S4S/S350 Esprit could match or better those speeds tho they can't stop quite as well or as late and I should be able to carry better speed through Duffus on decent tyres.

, which I'm not currently..

- hence the post to confirm suspicions.

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:34 pm

its a very tricky question, as people look at there speedo at different points. subjectively, you'll never get a good answer, the best way is to follow a quick car through duffus and see how much of a distance they pull.

i suspect most of the folk who claim big numbers (like evo drivers

) are looking at there speedo halfway through the braking zone, then scrubbing off 15 mph before they get to the apex, or, are quoting there speed at the left hand apex as thats fasteer than the right hander

i have no idea, as like shug, i'm looking through the corner to try and spot my line for the left hander.

Post by **Shug** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:41 pm

mckeann wrote:its a very tricky question, as people look at there speedo at different points. subjectively, you'll never get a good answer, the best way is to follow a quick car through duffus and see how much of a distance they pull.

i suspect most of the folk who claim big numbers (like evo drivers ) are looking at there speedo halfway through the braking zone, then scrubbing off 15 mph before they get to the apex, or, are quoting there speed at the left hand apex as thats fasteer than the right hander

i have no idea, as like shug, i'm looking through the corner to try and spot my line for the left hander.

Yup, the only time I'd quote a corner speed would be if I had a datalog trace showing it.

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:44 pm

ok - cheers m8 - only knew my speeds as I had a datalogger recording at the time.. Esprit dash not easiest to read so base everythign on gear and revs when actually out there.

distance - quite a lot to the quicker cars is probably the answer. Post was more in relation to whether I was overbraking and scrubbing unncessary time than what my terminal was. - hence as a subjective %. I'm pretty sure I'm not being aggressive enough on speed or line but if we get a chance then you can see what you think next time out.

looking through the bend - yes - tried to remember that one at SIDC - it does make sense and everything seems to slow down a bit when you do that rather than reacting to what's 10 yards in front of you. Seems to work particuarly well through both Duffus and Clarke's and to a lesser degree at Butchers where the car is a bit unblanced anyway and you're simply pointing a line through Glenvargil.

I'm still not up with the new names - I stil call Daewoo 'Railway' tho I think it's changed again, ditto Brabhams, Taylor's etc etc.

Post by **Shug** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:46 pm

M Blur wrote: I'm still not up with the new names - I stil call Daewoo 'Railway' tho I think it's changed again, ditto Brabhams, Taylor's etc etc.

I refuse to recognise the 'new' pay-names. "Seat Curves", my pink, hairy arse!

At least they still honour Clark's memory.....

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:48 pm

Shug wrote:I think the flat references are from the apex of Duffus to McIntyres - some people lift at the left-hand kink at the bottom of the hill. Have no idea what my speed at apex is, never datalogged it and I'm looking elsewhere when I'm there

The kerbs aren't as scary as you think. The apex kerb at Duffus, I've always found to be perfect for lining the car up for the next left and to get the braking relatively straight for McIntyres.

From McIntyres, it's flat to the chicane.....

aye - ditto Shug - I avoid the entry kerb at Duffus (remember the pic of Muller's BTCC Astra on 2 wheels..

) but like that left hand kerb - I try to keep the throttle flat but find mid-bend the car much flatter than I expected so guess my entry is a bit slow. I'll go back and check the datafile - it's under 60-65 then I'm gonna slp myself...

The kerbs kind of the reverse at Clarke's - left hand entry is nice but the right hand apex is a bit of bouncer..

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:55 pm

i find the new kerbs much easier to throw the car at than the old ones. every setup is different tho.

when you mentioned earlier about "braking into the turn or are you already back on the throttle" do you mean the first apex, or between the right/left??

M Blur · Post by **M Blur** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:58 pm

mckeann wrote:i find the new kerbs much easier to throw the car at than the old ones. every setup is different tho.

when you mentioned earlier about "braking into the turn or are you already back on the throttle" do you mean the first apex, or between the right/left??

aye - first apex Neil

I'm then on a steady or slightly accelerating mid-bend to second apex then quick sharp brakes for MacIntyres. Keepign nicely tucked into the left.

See here:

http://www.lbmracing.com/videos/lbm_knockhill.wmv

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:23 pm

hard to tell from the video, but it looks like your turning in a bit late, which puts you off the left hander.

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:26 pm

I'm not sure what I've taken it at but certainly been trying to keep to 80-ish, but thats what the speedo suggests....can't claim to spend to much time looking at it through that turn......and i did have one chap trying to stay ahead of me, who went in about 10 mph quicker (I was pushing it with Pete in the car) and spun off in his S2.

When I have tried to keep one eye on the speedo (after reading about people saying it should be taken at 85) I've got badly off line more often than not and suffered through the next bend and been off line for Macintyres also.

On the straight the 111r will pull 120 before braking (2 up). Bizrrely its not muh quicker just 1 up?? Witnessed (Pete, Tom, Ed and UR):D

Oh, that was before it started performing its new shut down tactics

Now it won't hit 2nd cam after 5 laps, would not pass 100 on the straight, and then the engine shuts down for cornering, with comedy slides the result, when they can be predicted.

It has however given me the opportunity of lapping KH a few times trying to keep as much pace as possible through the corners as I couldn't use 2nd cam at all. Slightly nuts approach admittedly and resulted in a fair few moments!

Might be a worth while excerise without using pull power.....don't think I've the will power unless its forced on me though