M3 SOLD!!!!!!

[philthy]

Friend of mine just got an s2000, i thought it was slow and heavy, a bit rubbish apart from the noise and nice click gear change.

[Dominic]

I've always fancied an S2000. Never been in one though.

[meatball]

Was annoyed with my elise, test drove a S2000, loved my elise again......and bought an exige!

Come on Mike......you know you want to!!!!!! Save up/sell organs!

[Mike Scib]

philthy it will be slow and heavy against a S1 Exige, but so will most cars

Campbell, i would love a S2 Exige as you know , but A, i can't afford one at the mo as in the middle of renovating the house B, I like to have a car i can use everyday, a boot, spare wheel, a roof that works compared to a Elise. Yes the Elise, Exige will be better (maybe ) on track the once every month or two, with the other 90% of miles being driven on road.

[meatball]

I'm sure that you could find an 04 plate cheap........they are almost worthless now.......especially in silver.....£10k should do it!!!!

[Mike Scib]

I'm sure that you could find an 04 plate cheap........they are almost worthless now.......especially in silver.....£10k should do it!!!!

04, Silvers ones are the slow ones, are they not?

[meatball]

I'm not going there....he's had enough abuse from me of late.......
.....and I'm looking for a pax on mon!
........but I believe that exige is mega quick to make up for the driver.......as his signature says!

[Jamie84]

s2000s are slow.......ish.

Had a play with one , wont say to much but he wouldnt let me passed at 100tuts

[kenny]

I'm not going there....he's had enough abuse from me of late.......
.....and I'm looking for a pax on mon!
........but I believe that exige is mega quick to make up for the driver.......as his signature says!

lollercoasterz

[dlogan]

I had an S2000 a few years back and as a daily driver I really couldnt fault it, apart from "feeling" slow at low revs due to feck all torque.
Higher up the rev range and its not a slow car. Yes its gonna be slower than an exige, but its 1250kg, which isnt really that bad all told, a bit of quality in the cabin, a very good electric hood, etc etc.

Handling raw enough to be exciting...and a fantastic 6spd box.........and they are starting to look seriously cheap to me.

Better value than something like a boxster I reckon, and I'd have another. (Alongside the 340R of course)

[VXJON]

As a daily driver /fun car its a very good option


Very good comparison from one of the vx guys



[quote name='dw1' date='Aug 3 2007, 15:50 ' post='622201']
Hi there Si,
This is a chance to wheel out my party piece - Here's a long review I posted on the S2000 forum comparing the two. I always post this review here when an s2ker asks about the VX and also because it took me so bloody long to write it I like to get some mileage out of it Hope it's helpful.

How the S2000 compares to my VX220 Turbo
Based on a totally stock standard car.

I did say that I would do a more comprehensive report on my new car so here we go, this is a long one but hopefully worthwhile for those who take the time to read this especially as there have been a number of recent posts from people thinking of having a sniff at one and a number of recent S owners who have moved in this direction.

I came from 3 years of S2000 ownership in January 06 and have done 5 months in the VX220 Turbo including a couple of track days, I had also done numerous track days in the S2000 and have had a driving professional drive each so I know what the cars are capable of.

It’s difficult to make a direct comparison to the S2000 because the cars are built to different briefs, but I'll have a go anyway. I will cover different aspects and give my verdict score on which fares better (all highly debateable). I have given equal weighting to each aspect though you might want to apply your own weighting depending on what’s most important to you (again highly debateable when you come to total up). So here we go…

Owners forum: The vx220.org forum is very good and similar to s2ki as a bunch of helpful, friendly and responsive folks. To me it really is a big plus in owning a car like this and makes a big difference to ownership. My gut feel (and I could be wrong here) is that the average age of active forum members is a little younger than the S2ki forum – that’s neither a good nor bad thing. You get answers to questions very quickly.
Verdict: S 1, VX 1 – What a difference a good forum makes to help the ownership experience and they are both as good as each other and tribute to the owners.

Engine noise: The aural pleasure of a car is important enough to have a section of it’s own as it’s capable of turning heads, bringing a massive grin to the face and brightening up a drive just because you’re approaching a tunnel or bridge. Well nothing can replace that lovely 9000rpm F1 style scream of the S, I used to run it with the airbox cover off and would grin like a child every time I went through a tunnel. I didn't think it needed any aftermarket fettering as I loved the pure sound as it was. The only thing that surpasses the S is Ferrari type engines. You can tinker with VXT but won’t get anything close to the S noise, with a Normally Aspirated VX and some aftermarket pieces you start to get closer but IMO you still can't match the noise because it was pure banzai rpm engine note and not exhaust. Tunnels are not the same fun anymore.
Verdict: S 1, VX 0 – No question about it, the S wins hands down. As standard the VX is nothing special and the whoosh of a turbo spinning up doesn’t even come close. The NA is a bit better but still no comparison.

Engine: Well, you don't need to top up the oil every week. The VXT is actually a very lazy block compared to the banzai F20C and the power delivery is totally different. There is some turbo lag at normal speeds and the power curve is a little uneven (but I am told this can be sorted through a remap). When at track speeds you simply don't notice any lag as you are 'on it' the whole time. I actually love the turbo in regular driving as it is so effortless, you just push you foot halfway down and look in the mirror with a grin as the car behind you has just shrunk! So you do avoid the frustration in the S of having to suddenly change down a couple of gears and wait for VTEC to launch you. Having never owned a turbo car before I do quite like them. You can also tune the VXT to get 80+ extra bhp. The S is pretty much untunable.
Verdict: S1, VX 0 – I nearly went for a controversial draw here. If supercharged then it would have been a different matter. However the S is all about that amazing engine, it’s unique, special and exhilarating.

Servicing: Vauxhall are just not used to the VX220 or the type of customer that buys one and what owners expect. If you worry about putting your S into a Honda dealer then you’d need to take valium with a VX dealer. There are literally a small handful of dealers worthy, although there and some independent specialists who are truly excellent. There is one that has just earnt the ability to give a Vauxhall stamp and do official warranty work (Thorney Motorsport), phew as I’m due a service soon!
Verdict: S 1, VX 1 - Last minute equaliser by the VX specialists.

Practicality: The VX boot is smaller but if you use squashy bags they literally go right into the recesses to the edge of the bodywork, plus with the space behind the seat it is surprising what you can fit in it. But you can still fit more, more comfortably, in the S. You cannot fit a hard carry-on luggage case in the VX boot mainly due to the restrictive opening. I use my VX as an everyday car and it’s fine.
Verdict: S 1, VX 0 - No sh*t Sherlock.

Costs: The price bracket is very similar, with the VX initially depreciating at a quicker rate. You can get a very recent mint condition car with sub 5000 miles on it for under £20k, so the S is a little more expensive. Depreciation then slows to a similar curve to the S. Whether this is good depends on if you are buying or selling. The running costs are very similar, with services being around £120 for the VX. As for fuel economy, who cares! If you’re concerned about that buy a diesel not a sports car. However the fuel tank is small and is only good for a range of about 200ish miles.
Verdict: S 1, VX 1 – Both cars cost buttons considering the performance when compared to other sports car marques.

Speed: Acceleration is quicker with the VXT, the NA is about similar to the S but the NA runs out of puff after 80 compared to an S. The VXT keeps pulling hard to 130+. However I remember 3rd and 4th gear in the S was surprisingly quick and I don't think at that range the VXT is significantly quicker. Overall it's a quicker car than the S. On the Nurburgring I went 30 seconds quicker than in my S, I reckon 15 seconds was down to more familiarity and the other 15 to the car.
Verdict: S 0, VX 1 – If outright acceleration and speed’s your thing, the turbo delivers.

Build quality: Well it’s not a Honda! The engine is very solid with no reliability worries as the car is so light it’s not strained. It also doesn’t appear to use any oil – a real and pleasant novelty coming from the infamously thirsty MY00 range! I think the paintwork is made of cottage cheese and the front of the car is very prone to stone chips partly due to its vertical face. It’s something to do with the flexing of fibreglass and the paint sticking to it. Elsewhere it’s mostly ok but it is something to look out for. I would consider a nose respray after 3 years if you drive it as an every day car.
You need to remember the VX is a low volume, hand build car which means inconsistencies. The secret is to just accept that and see it as an expected quirk of ownership and accept it with a smile (much like you would with a partner). It’s part of the ownership experience. The more recent cars seem to have a lot of the little bits already sorted at the factory. Also all of the problems and fixes have been identified with the VX so if you are unlucky at least there is an answer.
Verdict: S 1, VX 0 – Just go to the two forums and see the types of questions, s2ki is ‘how do I make my car really shiny’ etc. Vx220.org is ‘how do I make my heater knob stay on’ etc 

Comfort/Ride:
The Turbo has been given a very slightly softer and more complaint ride which makes motorway driving just fine. Going at 90 is smooth and fine and comfortable. There is more noise as there is less sound insulation but not to the extent that it’s crazy, if you turn the stereo up loud with the roof off whilst driving fast you can still hear it. The heater is not a patch on the S, and that’s if you’re lucky enough to get a good one or fiddle around with Heath Robinson to make it half decent. Air con is non existent and it can get hot in the cabin on a hot day. Getting in and out is a bit of a do at first but you soon get used to it and it adds to the theatre of the car. I actually enjoy it as it emphasises it’s sporting intentions, it’s like that because it needs to be for the handling of the car not for the person. It’s also funny watching uninitiated passengers trying to get in and out, huffing and puffing . It has manual windows which I thought would be a bind but actually because the cabin is so snug you can easily reach across and wind down the passenger side in two easy spins of the handle. Central locking with remote fob is an option!!!!! Luckily mine has that option as I would get very annoyed without it (I guess I’m too soft ). The car tells you when you have hit a pot hole but that’s because it’s so in tune with the real road and not all the cushioning that gets in the way of driver communication. Until I got my VX I never realised all the divots in my local roads as the S just sailed over them.
Verdict: S 1, VX 0 – The S is a more comfy car, but the VX is not uncomfortable.

Handling: Out of the box the handling is bordering on the sublime. It’s also very adjustable. I find that the car is prone to a tiny bit of understeer (this was apparently dialled in by GM to avoid big lawsuits) but also I think my geo is slightly out. I will be getting a revised geometry at the next service and will ask for a road/track setting and expect this spice things up a bit to make it more kart like and even more pointy. I could go more extreme and ask for the full track setting but I’m not ready for that just yet. I had not had experience of mid engine cars and was wary about them just spinning out because of the low polar inertia, but I needn’t have worried as it’s a pussy cat. If you can drive an S with sensitivity and without being an idiot then you’ll be absolutely fine in the VX, it’s very controllable. On an airfield I was trying my hardest to upset the car and doing all manner of things to try to make it spin, things that I could not have got away with in an S. (P.S. I obviously wasn’t trying hard enough because I didn’t spin) but you have to do something really extreme in the dry to get this puppy twirling. In the wet the car is fine, better than the S but again you need to drive according to the conditions and not like an idiot. On a wet ,slow parade lap on the Nurburging the S posse were twitching and all spoke of the cars nervousness, the VX was absolutely fine and planted with no hint of a twitch at the same speeds.
A well driven S with it's LSD did have very good handling. The VX handles direction change better. The S tends to pitch and roll more and there’s absolutely no scuttle shake either. The VX has the same chassis as the Elise and I don’t think a bad word has been said about that and for good reason too. The Lotus developers and test drivers know their salt.
Verdict: S 0, VX 1 – Tubular bonded aluminium spaceframe & Gavan Kershaw, nuff said.

Steering: The VX has incredible communicative kart-like steering - in fact at first it seems almost too communicative with the tiny momo wheel wiggling around all over the place, it can be a little unsettling at first (especially at higher speeds). However, once you get used to it, it’s fantastic. Chalk and cheese compared to the S which was more numb with the electric rack and power steering. I think if I went back to an S now I would really notice the lack of communication.
Verdict: S 0, VX 1 – It doesn’t get much better than this for the VX.

Brand: Controversial this one. I’d put the Honda brand above Vauxhall, but as far as road sports cars go both are not known by the general public, despite Honda’s F1 involvement. The average age of the Honda buyer being over 55 has something to do with it and as for Vauxhall you have to go back as far as the 1930s to see any real sports car linkage. The fact you have to explain an S2000 to people or if you just tell them you own a Honda they think of a Jazz or a Civic. It’s even more comical if you tell them you own a Vauxhall.
Verdict: S 0, VX 0 – you both get a nil nil draw because perception wise both companies are rubbish here, neither are worthy of a point, although I’m leaning towards Honda who bounced a few off the post.

Sense of occasion and looks: The VX is more controversial, spectacular/radical that the S and as a result people love or hate it’s looks. The S’s beautiful, sleek and pure lines don’t cause controversy. There are also more S’s about so people are less surprised to see them. The VX has a sense of occasion about it and turns heads, which is fun. I personally love the look of the VX, it’s very striking, purposeful and aggressive. It’s also very rare which adds to the special feeling.
Verdict: S 0, VX 1 – It’s rarity and striking looks give the VX a strong presence.

Summary:
The S wins 8:7! As I was writing this I wasn’t keeping a tally in my head, I was just looking at each aspect on its own merits. So I find the outcome very interesting. Context is everything and to help you understand this the evolution of my last four car choices has moved gradually more focused; Sirocco, MX5, S2000, VX220 Turbo. I love ALL of them and each were fantastic cars that brought a smile to my face every single day. The S has the perfect balance of compromises, you only have to give up a little to get 90% of it all. With the VXT you need to give up a little bit more but you will get 100% in some areas. The VXT for me represents a step up in terms of a more extreme/pure driving experience compared to the S. By nature that requires a compromise in terms of comfort/practicality/reliability etc but I’m pleased to say not as much as I was bracing for. And that’s the secret, mentally prepare for the worst in some areas with this car and anything else is a bonus. I think the VX is absolutely fantastic as I put a premium on handling, steering and driver feel. If the S is at your threshold of what is acceptable in terms of compromise then the VX is not for you. However for those that dare and can tolerate it’s weaknesses, the flip side is the reward of a sublime driving experience akin to a go kart and all that entails.

Hope you enjoyed this and that it helps explain the VX through my eyes and helps anyone who is thinking of moving this way.

All the best, safe and happy driving. Cheers,


As a footnote: if you're considering an N/A, it is still a bloody quick car, certainly as quick as an S2000 (it's just I had come from an S2000 and wanted more power). The N/A is as quick round a track as the turbo due to less weight and slightly sharper handling.
[/quote]