Architect required.

jj · Post by jj » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:24 pm

I had a doodle on that plan, and if you rehung the door and made the kitchen layout a bit more interesting with an island you could get away with having a column where mac suggested, and incorporate the column into it / a flying shelf over.

mac · Post by **mac** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:26 pm

The longer the span the more room for deflection which can lead to the memeber being overstressed and buckling.

The real issue is a function of both the span and the weight that it has to carry (another floor, two floors, two floors & roof garden etc) By bringing in the the second member (there you go Shug - have fun) close to the point where you would have maximum deflection you would need to increase the section size again to compensate for this.

That said - I'd be suprised if the cupboard is loadbearing.

Mac

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:29 pm

A column will create a point load on the structure below at floor level and would be more likely to disrupt the flat below, making you unpopular.

2 203 x 133 x 30 UB's would probably be fine, although an inspection of the roof space to check the construction, span of joists, location of water tanks etc would be necessary before confirming sizes.

Would also need the wall checked that they are in good condition and can take the load from the beams.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:33 pm

kenny wrote:A column will create a point load on the structure below at floor level and would be more likely to disrupt the flat below, making you unpopular.

2 203 x 133 x 30 UB's would probably be fine, although an inspection of the roof space to check the construction, span of joists, location of water tanks etc would be necessary before confirming sizes.

Would also need the wall checked that they are in good condition and can take the load from the beams.

Cheers kenny

JJ had me thinking there of an island, but I hadn't thought of the load put by the column on the floor etc....

The property has a flat roof, and therefore no water tanks or roof space to spaek of. I guess there might be a foot gap between the roof and my ceiling, but certainly no way of getting into it.

mac · Post by **mac** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:34 pm

I didn't realise it was for a flat

because I'm a prat and never read the whole thing first.

I'll shut up now and leave it to the qualified folk

Mac

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:38 pm

mac wrote:I didn't realise it was for a flat

Mac

oh sorry, my fault....

didn't mention it's a second/top floor flat, kind of similar to edinburgh style victorian flats with big bay windowed sittingroom and bedroom at the front, boxroom and cupboards in the middle, and bedroom, bathroom, diningroom and kitchen at the back.

scratch that, i did mention it...

mac · Post by **mac** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:39 pm

No you mentioned - but I saw the drawing and didn't bother reading any more after that point.

Mac

Rich H · Post by **Rich H** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:45 pm

You said "member"

Snigger

(Sorry Shug must have missed that one)

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:45 pm

Those beams will be more than enough then.

Lawrence · Post by **Lawrence** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:33 pm

Tom

You probably won't need anything much at all to take away that cupboard away.

If your're on the top floor then just have a look in the attic and see if it's holding anything up, my guess is that it's not. If you're not on the top floor then of course it's holding up the cupboard above

Does the cupboard have a wooden floor BTW

If there is anything being held up in the attic then the joists can probably be bridled across to reinforce the ceiling as necessary.

You will still need an engineer to prove the alteration remains strong enough but you could probably do the drawings yourself and save a quid and learn some more for the next one.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:26 pm

Lawrence wrote:Tom

You probably won't need anything much at all to take away that cupboard away.

If your're on the top floor then just have a look in the attic and see if it's holding anything up, my guess is that it's not. If you're not on the top floor then of course it's holding up the cupboard above

Does the cupboard have a wooden floor BTW

If there is anything being held up in the attic then the joists can probably be bridled across to reinforce the ceiling as necessary.

You will still need an engineer to prove the alteration remains strong enough but you could probably do the drawings yourself and save a quid and learn some more for the next one.

Cupboard has a concrete/cement floor (apparently quite common..). No roof space so I have no idea what it's holding up.

kenny · Post by **kenny** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:27 pm

Probably, generally in the joists/rafters are spanning in the same direction of the wall then it could be removed at underside of roof. Thats not to say there is not loads from hip ends etc.

Worth mentioning that you are losing lateral restraint to the external walls, probably not a big issue in this case but again its something that will have to be given consideration to.

Lawrence · Post by **Lawrence** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:38 pm

Tom wrote:
Cupboard has a concrete/cement floor (apparently quite common..). No roof space so I have idea what it's holding up.

It's the old coal cellar then

It's very unlikely to need any supporting at all when removed

The roof joists will be travelling from the front to the back of the house and only walls at 90 degrees to that direction will have any design loading on them. A 1.5 metre wall will only involve a maximum of 3 joists at 500mm centres, probaly only 2.

HTH