Blown Turbo or something worse?NLC

[Jacobite]

Hi all sorry I posted this on a peugeot forum a week ago with out response and the complete engine (Ancillarys ECU the lot) I won on E-bay for £275 had been destroyed in a fire

So just looking for any advice from you knowledgable guys since my commuting car has thrown in the towel ~

2002 Peugeot 206 1.4Hdi Van which was great for nearly 10,000 miles since the start of May regularly getting between 65 and 74 mpg fill to fill
The first thing I noticed was a sound of what I guess was the waste gate wooshing and puffing almost continually which I had never heard before on Tue night on Wed morning on route to work and on a long hill it happened again and then a major loss of power lots of black smoke

the engine would still run temperature fine just no power although it did pull better in higher gears than lower ones and used 1 liter of oil getting it home ~(Yes I know duh @me but a 13 hour shift finishing at 11pm then finding out your direct line breakdown policy will only recover you from within 10 miles of home

Any thoughts would be appreciated ~more likely to be doing the work myself than getting flieced by a stealer
cheers Hamish

[robin]

Heavy oil use & black smoke & loss of power is either major loss of compression (hole in piston or similar) or is the turbo bearing.

I don't know how one does a compression test on an HDI diesel - you have two challenges: (1) somewhere to attach the compression tester (do the glow plugs come out?) (2) you have to disable the high pressure pump - the fuel pressure is very high, so high that I believe it can injure you if you were to put your finger over the injector, for example (this was a warning I received when I was an apprentice 25+ years ago long before HDI type diesel engines were invented).

So, perhaps it's easier to assume it's the turbo bearing and replace the turbo

Cheers,
Robin

[Rich H]

Wastegate actuator? Wastegate stuck open?
But the oil use doesn't sound good...

Get it running and see what the crank case pressure is doing. Also check the oil for diesel.

[campbell]

(this was a warning I received when I was an apprentice 25+ years ago long before HDI type diesel engines were invented).

He's retained a lot of his early teachings, too!

[David]

I think the symptoms you describe point to the turbo - particularly a sudden and high oil consumption. My guess is that the waste gate may have been faulty and that has caused a secondary failure of the turbo bearing. Don't despair- the turbo unit may be cheaper than you think to replace.

David

[GBOBM]

I had the exact same symptoms on my 2.0 tdci mondeo. The rubber waste pipe from the turbo had split.
Sounded like it was sucking in air really loudly, lack of power and lots of black smoke out the back.

Check that the pipes are connected to the turbo correctly and check that they are in tact before you start dismantling things.

[Jacobite]

Hi all thanks for the replys Just after I'd picked it up I replaced the turbo~inlet side hose as it had perished and was allowing a drop in power ~although nothing like as bad as this ~ was on my way back from work ~St Andrews And was down to less than 20mph with the foot flat to the floor ~no bother I though I took out breakdown rescue recovery with Direct line ins ~ would only take the car 10mile ~ the biggest waste of £55 so far on the car

Yes your right Robin 1400 psi quoted

You needs a special tool to take the injectors out and they are coded to the ECU

Turbos looking about £150-£300 ish

Engine starts straight way smoky and powerless no engine lights

I can check for air pressure from the turbo via the intake hose and oil pressure from the oil pump to the turbo oil feed union

But how do I check for diesel in the oil?

[steviej]

Does it have an exhaust EGR valve, this could be stuck open, worth checking out it would give you a power loss and black smoke (shouldnt affect oil consumption tho)

[Rich H]

Pull th edipstick adn have a sniff... if it smells like slightly burned toast it's fine, if it smells like diesel...

[2F45T4U]

if its as bad as that then the turbo should be failed enough that its easy to spot. if you can remove the turbo suction and discharge hoses, check for oil (there will always be some but if theres a lot then its likely seals, and if you put your fingers in the suction side of the turbo and see how much play you get.
if you can see the impellor, check and see if its been scuffing on the turbo housing.

there are many things that could cause most of the symptoms youve described, but turbo failure is the most likely cause of them all. I would doubt it would be a head gasket, but check the turbo first.

[sls]

Hi Hamish,

Black smoke sounds like a boost pipe or a vacum leak causing overfueling, a turbo would normally be blue smoke from burning oil. I'm not sure why you've consumed so much oil if it is just a boost pipe however? I'd be happy to have a look at it for you if you've lost patience with it.

Cheers

Ali

[Jacobite]

Ok something to check on my day' s off this week
I may well take you up on that offer Ali ~will call once I know when I'm off
cheers all

[thinfourth]

if its as bad as that then the turbo should be failed enough that its easy to spot. if you can remove the turbo suction and discharge hoses, check for oil (there will always be some but if theres a lot then its likely seals, and if you put your fingers in the suction side of the turbo and see how much play you get.
if you can see the impellor, check and see if its been scuffing on the turbo housing.

there are many things that could cause most of the symptoms youve described, but turbo failure is the most likely cause of them all. I would doubt it would be a head gasket, but check the turbo first.

Unless you are really experience or the turbo is really knackered it is hard to feel a dead turbo as they have weird bearings which always have some wobble in them.

One good method i heard of is to spin the turbo backwards with your fingers

Get the oil nice and warm and quickly nip the turbo suction hose off then with the engine stopped spin the turbo backwards and if it stop instantly its knackered if it takes 3 or 4 revs to stop then it is okay

[2F45T4U]

One good method i heard of is to spin the turbo backwards with your fingers

Get the oil nice and warm and quickly nip the turbo suction hose off then with the engine stopped spin the turbo backwards and if it stop instantly its knackered if it takes 3 or 4 revs to stop then it is okay

i dont think thats really any better, sure if the seals are gone then you get a lump of carbon between the CHRA and the oil slinger plate, then it might appear a little stiff. if the bearings have gone the seals will be toast anyway.

if the turbo is 'whistling' and sounding rough, its norrmally pretty obvious when you look at it that its dead.

do those HDi's run MAFs?

[Jacobite]

I managed to find time for a quick look today

no smell of diesel on dip stick

More + air pressure than I remember from the oil filler cap on the rocker cover than I remember ~you can actually feel it

A vacume on the ribbed rubber reinforced hose leading to the air box

Oil lying in the rubber hose on the turbo side

Oil pressure reaching the turbo when the engine is running ~was weeping within a turn of loosening the banjo nut on the supply pipe

Taking the turbo off tomorrow for a wee look see
cheers for the input all