Just had an off, need help

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:58 pm

mckeann wrote:totally agree with you shug. Its saved me from a few accidents, on road and track. That unsettling feeling where your cornering happily within your limits, and have to lift off / brake suddenly mid corner to avoid an obstacle is what his training is all about. Its not to make you quicker, its to make you safer.

As shug said, if you've exceded every limit before then it removes the element of surprise.

Agreed on the limits stuff being handy for the really unexpected, but did you ever do his road driving course (which he no longer does, too many nutters!)? Pretty sure the message there was not "drive within limits of traction and attempt to avoid obstacles using skid control techniques" but rather "drive within limits of meatware (that's you) and use eyes to avoid obstacles long before skid control required".

All IMHO, of course ...

I'm with Simon on this one - having had two avoidable accidents caused by lack of forward observation I now drive 99% of the time at speeds that would simply allow me to stop in the distance I can see (I exclude from that Stelvio, which I attend 2 weeks in 200 or so

).

Cheers,
Robin

tenkfeet · Post by **tenkfeet** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:43 pm

I did a MAC course which was very good for improving road craft and read the Police Drivers handbook .

On my Walshy course there was a 111R there and I could stop a cars length sooner using the ABS than my best attempt in my non-ABS car . I hope I would do better now but for the average punter I think ABS is great especially in the wet .

Coming from a front wheel drive back ground I found the Walshy day excellent for road driving and improving my general standard and enjoyment of the car. How do you know you are driving within your limits unless you know where the limit is ? All the time spent spinning and going backwards was a valuable lesson . I have used the techniques on several occasions on the road to avoid accidents so it has paid for itself. Driving too fast for corners ( poor judgement ) , hitting diesel at very low speed , hitting the anchors hard to avoid a deer and numerous occasions where panic and doing the wrong thing could have caused an off . I have been off twice at Knockhill so will do another course next year learn how to drive at the limit .

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:57 pm

robin wrote: Agreed on the limits stuff being handy for the really unexpected, but did you ever do his road driving course (which he no longer does, too many nutters!)? Pretty sure the message there was not "drive within limits of traction and attempt to avoid obstacles using skid control techniques" but rather "drive within limits of meatware (that's you) and use eyes to avoid obstacles long before skid control required".

All IMHO, of course ...

I'm with Simon on this one - having had two avoidable accidents caused by lack of forward observation I now drive 99% of the time at speeds that would simply allow me to stop in the distance I can see (I exclude from that Stelvio, which I attend 2 weeks in 200 or so ).

Cheers,
Robin

I never did his road course, but he has given me some of the main pointers from that course just when we've been out for a run. I also took on board your ideas about sticking to your own lane, not following other people. Its all good information, form people with alot more experience than me. But, eventually, humans will make a mistake or a misjudgement, or they'll be that 1 in a million possibility that goes wrong, and knowing what to do could save your life.

I'm going for another training day on friday with AndyG so i obviously believe it works.

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:08 pm

mckeann wrote: I'm going for another training day on friday with AndyG so i obviously believe it works.

I'm not sure that even Walshy is ready for this big a challenge!

Really looking forward to it though...hopefully it will be as geinal as the last one

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:28 pm

sure it will be. I think the 2 person days are much better personally. obviously much more training time, but also, able to compare and swap and talk about things better.

then of course theres the heavy drinking session

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:44 pm

mckeann wrote: then of course theres the heavy drinking session

Surely the ultimate way to end the day

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:50 pm

it helps you take it all in. mulling things over a beer or 10

alicrozier · Post by **alicrozier** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:56 pm

mckeann wrote:it helps you take it all in. mulling things over a beer or 10

Remember to bring your steering wheel for those in-bar oversteer moments.

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:58 pm

i REALLY need a removable steering wheel so i can practise in the bar. i do ok without one tho

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:22 pm

They're not that great. The gf decided to tidy mine away and it went AWOL for 3 days .............. eventually it turned up in the back of the kitchen cupboard.

Had to move the car down the drive steering with a pair of vice grips clamped to the column.

mckeann · Post by **mckeann** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:26 pm

wimin, or do you think she did it on purpose??

Ali was ripping the pish out of me. When we were at the ring and spa, all my driving heroics were acted out in the bar at night, with imaginary steering wheel replays. I didnt even realise i was doing it, but it was an ongoing joke

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:00 pm

mckeann wrote:with imaginary steering wheel replays. I didnt even realise i was doing it, but it was an ongoing joke

I'll be keeping an eye out for that

thinfourth · Post by **thinfourth** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:52 pm

gordon wrote:They're not that great. The gf decided to tidy mine away and it went AWOL for 3 days .............. eventually it turned up in the back of the kitchen cupboard.

Had to move the car down the drive steering with a pair of vice grips clamped to the column.

dezzy · Post by **dezzy** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:59 pm

tenkfeet wrote:I did a MAC course which was very good for improving road craft and read the Police Drivers handbook.

I've never done any track training, but would really like to. I did my advanced driving test with the IAM last year and read the Police Driver's handbook as part of that (since it's based on it). Some really good stuff in it . . . it helped me dramatically with my country road driving. A lot more confident now. It was also quite nerve-wracking being tested by a Traffic Cop!

Has anyone else here done the advanced test? Do you rate it? I think a lot of it's useful, but I also disagree with a lot of it (like using push-pull all the time. Push-pull is appropriate sometimes, rotational steering at other times).

Although I got a lot from the test, I've stopped attending IAM meetings now as it's full of a load of flat-capped stuffy old men. That organisation has a serious image problem. Anyone else here been a member?

D

Dominic · Post by **Dominic** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:38 pm

I'm a member of the IAM

Many won't believe that! I actually got quite involved with my local group for a while, and did some 'observing' / training with them for a while. I represented my local group in a driver of the year competition, and came 6th! Then lost interest, as you say, a bunch of boring old farts!

It is very usefull to practice a lot of their techniques

. I would highly recomend any one to give it a go.

Now gives me & Louise cheaper car insurance (£200 off Louise's premium this year

). Most usefull of all is the observation & planning of driving. It's kept me safe(ish) and out of trouble many a time. You still can't beat some track experience / training / motorsport (i.e. autotesting) for learning about car control.

Probably not the correct use of IAM training, but it has allowed me to drive like a bit of a loon, and get away with it!... so far

Dominic