left foot braking!

[Mike Scib]

So at what point do you "mash" the brakes? I would just hold the drift, and if i get to the lock stops its to late, no?

[Scotty C]

So at what point do you "mash" the brakes? I would just hold the drift, and if i get to the lock stops its to late, no?

Depends on how much road you have, how fast your going etc, it's much faster then going sideways but you never understood that

When you lift off the back end gets light, when you lfb the front end does dive a little but it's less severe. Keeps the car more balanced.

If I still have the car I will be at tut towers more then happy to show you what I mean, if I can still remember how to drive

[Shug]

So at what point do you "mash" the brakes? I would just hold the drift, and if i get to the lock stops its to late, no?

Depends on how much road you have, how fast your going etc, it's much faster then going sideways but you never understood that

When you lift off the back end gets light, when you lfb the front end does dive a little but it's less severe. Keeps the car more balanced.

If I still have the car I will be at tut towers more then happy to show you what I mean, if I can still remember how to drive

You're confusing things here methinks Scotty - Mike was asking about the save manoeuvre, not standard Left Foot Braking. A-la your Craners scare - different way to use it, not the balancing use you describe here. As Mckeann describes, I'd imagine if you're sliding sideways and just lightly touch the brake pedal, it'll rotate even harder, not save it...

PS - Leigh, this is why it's confusing to get into a forum discussion about this stuff sometimes - can end up mixing things up more than helping!

[Scotty C]

So at what point do you "mash" the brakes? I would just hold the drift, and if i get to the lock stops its to late, no?

No if you get to the stops and its still spinning then you might be able to still save it (not sure i've been that far mind )Depends on how much road you have, how fast your going etc, it's much faster than going sideways but you never understood that

When scrubbing off speed - When you lift off the back end gets light, when you lfb (with you foot still on the throttle)the front end does dive a little but it's less severe. Keeps the car more balanced.

If I still have the car I will be at tut towers more than happy to show you what I mean, if I can still remember how to drive

You're confusing things here methinks Scotty - Mike was asking about the save manoeuvre, not standard Left Foot Braking. A-la your Craners scare - different way to use it, not the balancing use you describe here. As Mckeann describes, I'd imagine if you're sliding sideways and just lightly touch the brake pedal, it'll rotate even harder, not save it...

PS - Leigh, this is why it's confusing to get into a forum discussion about this stuff sometimes - can end up mixing things up more than helping!

yes your right Shug sorry for the confusion. Each of my sentences were talking about different situation, I’ve changed them. Hope that makes more sense?

[Shug]

Cool, ta chief

[robin]

My feet are too big/I am too clumsy to do the riverdance as described by Gav above. So for me LFB would be limited to non-gear change corners and spin-save. I don't drive fast enough to spin so that leaves non-gear change corners. I just find it too painful to hover my foot above the brake pedal so have given up with it for the odd time I ever might have felt it offered an advantage. Ignoring spin control I reckon it will only ever be worth a 1/10th or two around tracks like knockhill.

If you're serious about competing there is no substitute for time in the seat. What can work well from a training perspective is to line up a walshy day followed by a brands hatch tuition session (e.g. booking an instructor as a BH track day). This helps to cement the basic car control stuff you learn with walshy in the track context where you'll actually need it.

Cheers,
Robin

[scottishselise]

To be clear, if I am going sideways round a corner, when my foot is planted, a dab on the brake with my foot on the throttle will help straighten it up, not enhance the spin as mentioned?

TIA

[mckeann]

To be clear, if I am going sideways round a corner, when my foot is planted, a dab on the brake with my foot on the throttle will help straighten it up, not enhance the spin as mentioned?

TIA

if its a non ABS elise, this is what happens:

You go sideways, apply opposite lock, but the rear end keeps coming round. When you reach the end of the rack, your screwed, so the stomp on the LFB can help
By braking and accelerating at the same time, the throttle cancels out the rear brake, but leaves the front brake on. This effectively shifts your brake balance from 60/40 to 100/0.
If you press hard enough, you will lock the front wheels, this causes instant understeer. WARNING - If you DONT press hard enough to lock wheels, you'll transfer weight to the front, and spin even quicker.
when you get back on your intended line,release the brakes. At this point, you need to have got rid of the opposite lock and be pointing where you want to go, or you'll swerve the wrong way

[Shug]

To be clear, if I am going sideways round a corner, when my foot is planted, a dab on the brake with my foot on the throttle will help straighten it up, not enhance the spin as mentioned?

TIA

if its a non ABS elise, this is what happens:

You go sideways, apply opposite lock, but the rear end keeps coming round. When you reach the end of the rack, your screwed, so the stomp on the LFB can help
By braking and accelerating at the same time, the throttle cancels out the rear brake, but leaves the front brake on. This effectively shifts your brake balance from 60/40 to 100/0.
If you press hard enough, you will lock the front wheels, this causes instant understeer. WARNING - If you DONT press hard enough to lock wheels, you'll transfer weight to the front, and spin even quicker.
when you get back on your intended line,release the brakes. At this point, you need to have got rid of the opposite lock and be pointing where you want to go, or you'll swerve the wrong way

In other words, without practise, you'll crash even harder if you try it on the road!

[mckeann]

oh absolutely. I found this probably the hardest technique from walshy to pick up, and i certainly havent mastered it.

The problem is that everything you have ever learnt about braking is NOT to lock up, to feed thebrake in progressively. To then intentionally lock up is quite difficult to get your head around.

You NEED to practise this on an airfield

[mckeann]

i should add that i dont use this technique anymore as i dont have the regular practise. You'd be much better concentrating on learning getting to the end of the rack and back quickly when you go sideways. Most people get to the point where there arms cross, then give up. The elise balance point for BIG slides, is just past this point, which is where the rotational steering technique comes in handy

[graeme]

That video of the S2000 having a big moment at the 'ring (from the Random pics and vids thread) demonstrates the pure luck version of this technique. As soon as his front wheels hit the grass (same as locking them up) the back stops coming round.

Watch on YouTube

[Scotty C]

That video of the S2000 having a big moment at the 'ring (from the Random pics and vids thread) demonstrates the pure luck version of this technique. As soon as his front wheels hit the grass (same as locking them up) the back stops coming round.

Watch on YouTube

??? once the front wheels hit the grass they have less friction and speed up, hence why the front end spins back round. Lucky for him

[kenny]

Most people get to the point where there arms cross, then give up

I may have experienced this a few times.

[mckeann]

so do i when i drive a caterham, as i struggle to fit my arms and legs in