S2 - Quantum zero dampers - Driveability

[AllanS2]

Hi guys,

Firstly I'd like to state I'm not slagging the Quantum zeros at all!

I had a leaky rear damper and rather than replacing with OE Billies, decided to fit Zeros (Progressive spring 275F/222.400R Ib) after reading good reviews. Fitted them yesterday, no geo done yet but drove to work today and I would have to say it is harsher on the bumps than the billies. I did expect these to soak up the bumps better!

I spoke with Ian at Elise parts, good service/advice, even offered to change out the springs (linear) if it came to it as did say it will tend to be a bit stiffer than the bilsteins but heads above them in handling.

As mentioned not set up at all yet, not sure if there is some other issue? Proper bangs over bumps! - mostly coming from rear, it did it before with the billies but maybe not as much - I put it down to the dampers having seen better days. Is this just the nature of the beast? Have it booked into Kenny Brown at Hillington to get checked out (he mentioned plastic shims can wear out?

Just wondered what folks opinions are on here? anyone run them? my use is mainly road, maybe an odd track day.

So....do I percivere with them or flog them and back to billies? Test drives welcome

Cheers,

Allan

[lou_m]

Probably not much help but I went from GAZ Nickles to Quantum Zeros on the VX. 275 front and 200-400 rears in the end. I had my springs swapped from 325f 250-500r as it wasn't the change that I was expecting from the 425f 475r GAZ setup.

What tyres are you running? I had Toyo T1R's initially and it was great then I put on some Yokohama AD08's and the ride deteriorated quite a bit with the steel reinforced sidewalls.

[CubanGav]

I had them on my S2 and liked them. They were bashy at slower speeds with me too but slick when nipping on. I had the stiffest set they do though.
Remember they wont be set at the right height out of the box. You may find they are too high and you have little droop travel left. They are also designed to drop the car by 10 to 15mm from standard. Probably best to have them set right and take it from there.

Just my experience with them.

Gav.

Edit - too high or low or all over the place - and I forget what way droop goes

[AllanS2]

Probably not much help but I went from GAZ Nickles to Quantum Zeros on the VX. 275 front and 200-400 rears in the end. I had my springs swapped from 325f 250-500r as it wasn't the change that I was expecting from the 425f 475r GAZ setup.

What tyres are you running? I had Toyo T1R's initially and it was great then I put on some Yokohama AD08's and the ride deteriorated quite a bit with the steel reinforced sidewalls.

Hi mate, thanks for the info,

I'm running Bridgstone RE040's, think they do have a harder wall too. So you swopped to 275f/200.400r from the 325f/ 200.500r yeah? what do mean by the change? what was yours like with the quantums at that spring rate? Drive wise? better on the bumps for road?

I'll get a look at the link now, cheers

[AllanS2]

I had them on my S2 and liked them. They were bashy at slower speeds with me too but slick when nipping on. I had the stiffest set they do though.
Remember they wont be set at the right height out of the box. You may find they are too high and you have little droop travel left. They are also designed to drop the car by 10 to 15mm from standard. Probably best to have them set right and take it from there.

Just my experience with them.

Gav.

Edit - too high or low or all over the place - and I forget what way droop goes

Hi Gav,

Ta, yeah rears are set low about 125mm, need to raise it to 130, but that will make it more crashy eh? front is needing dropped so should soften it up a bit. Yeah seem more bashy around town at slow speeds.........hmmm decisions.

[AllanS2]

Maybe the rear is hitting the bump stop?

Fitting wise:

lower/more compression - less crashy?

[CubanGav]

Standard was about 125 front and 130 rear iirc. Various figures about for what standard was supposed to be.
They like a 5mm rake front to back. So you should go for roughly 115 front and 120 rear and you wont have any issues at this height.
Eliseparts would be able to tell you 100% what height they are designed for.
If it's set too high or low you run out of travel in one direction and it crashes through the car when the shock hits the stops. Not sure how big a hole you need to hit for this to happen so if it's just generally crashy it's probably not that.
Also make sure the height is measured at the right place under the car.
Measure the rear on the big chassis cross member just in front of the back wheel. the front is just behind the wheel and again on the chassis.
If I'm not right about that someone will say - it's been a while since I did it.
I do remember thinking it wasn't as slick as I'd hoped for at the time but just put it down to the spring rates. I even toyed with the idea of doing the suspension bushes but didn't in the end.
The general wisdom on ride quality was that the Lotus billies were about as good as it gets. In hindsight I would have went for the softer ones for the bumpy roads we have.

[AllanS2]

Cheers Gav,

Food for thought, I'll check the height tomorrow. then decide whether to swop the springs or go back to the billies, think I might consider a slightly softer spring if they could do it for me, as long as it didn't compromise handling drastically. Expensive lesson, wonder what I'd get selling them on? aye obviously folk don't have as rough roads as us lucky buggers!

Couldnae live with it the way it is, billies were just bareable.

Cheers,

Allan

[lou_m]

Probably not much help but I went from GAZ Nickles to Quantum Zeros on the VX. 275 front and 200-400 rears in the end. I had my springs swapped from 325f 250-500r as it wasn't the change that I was expecting from the 425f 475r GAZ setup.

What tyres are you running? I had Toyo T1R's initially and it was great then I put on some Yokohama AD08's and the ride deteriorated quite a bit with the steel reinforced sidewalls.

Hi mate, thanks for the info,

I'm running Bridgstone RE040's, think they do have a harder wall too. So you swopped to 275f/200.400r from the 325f/ 200.500r yeah? what do mean by the change? what was yours like with the quantums at that spring rate? Drive wise? better on the bumps for road?

I'll get a look at the link now, cheers

I think the 325f 250-500 was good when REALLY pushing on. Changed to the softer springs and I found it better for 98.72% of the time. Much nicer on our bumpy crap surfaced roads. I had my springs swapped FOC and just sent my old ones back once I was happy with the new ones.

[AllanS2]

Probably not much help but I went from GAZ Nickles to Quantum Zeros on the VX. 275 front and 200-400 rears in the end. I had my springs swapped from 325f 250-500r as it wasn't the change that I was expecting from the 425f 475r GAZ setup.

What tyres are you running? I had Toyo T1R's initially and it was great then I put on some Yokohama AD08's and the ride deteriorated quite a bit with the steel reinforced sidewalls.

Hi mate, thanks for the info,

I'm running Bridgstone RE040's, think they do have a harder wall too. So you swopped to 275f/200.400r from the 325f/ 200.500r yeah? what do mean by the change? what was yours like with the quantums at that spring rate? Drive wise? better on the bumps for road?

I'll get a look at the link now, cheers

I think the 325f 250-500 was good when REALLY pushing on. Changed to the softer springs and I found it better for 98.72% of the time. Much nicer on our bumpy crap surfaced roads. I had my springs swapped FOC and just sent my old ones back once I was happy with the new ones.

That is the same rate as I'm running, not given it much time but I don't see there being that much improvement after proper height adjustment/GEO. Sure it will be the dogs on track and feels planted on smooth surfaces but I think if I am going to change I need to go for something closer to the Bilsteins as standard, maybe 300/350 Ib if they could do it.

Stock Elise suspension front: A116C0015H Eibach spring 200lb/in Rear: A120D0012H spring 285lb/in

Good to know they changed them FOC.

[Scuffers]

Cheers Gav,

Food for thought, I'll check the height tomorrow. then decide whether to swop the springs or go back to the billies, think I might consider a slightly softer spring if they could do it for me, as long as it didn't compromise handling drastically. Expensive lesson, wonder what I'd get selling them on? aye obviously folk don't have as rough roads as us lucky buggers!

Couldnae live with it the way it is, billies were just bareable.

Cheers,

Allan

be nice to understand what the issue is here, having done a fair few miles on them on many different cars, your description does not fit with my experience of them?

as said, what heights/pre-loads are you running? (by pre-load, I mean how many turns of the spring collar are they set with from initial spring contact when the spring was fitted).

in basic terms, the aero's have more low-speed bump than billies, but should 'give-way' on bumps easier - ie, they feel stiffer but when you hit a 'bump' they should not crash over it (kind of hard to explain).

I have certainly driven them on some truly sh*t roads, and the only issue I have felt is when on concrete 'slabbed' roads where the 'slabs' were just the wrong length for the car and you end up with it kind of oscillating in pitch (to be fair, just about every Elise setup I have driven does this on the same road - it's a wheelbase thing).

[CubanGav]

Just thinking logically here and forgive me if I am wrong. I'm just looking to understand why they might not be as smooth as expected.

The Quantum zeros don't have adjustable pre-load (as I understand it works on higher end shocks. The spring collar is wound down only to set the desired ride height; within the manufacturers spec).
All things being equal - if the ride height is set to what the manufacturer recommends and we still have a rough feeling then it must be something other than the dampers causing it. The only other moving parts are the mounts between the shock and the chassis and the wishbones and the chassis.
If they don't crash on one car but do on another then it must be something other than the damper themselves causing it? i.e. - a bush problem?

[r10crw]

Agree with Gav that Id be looking reound the rest of the suspension. I remember one elise which had elongated the hole for the shock 8olts, it would crash and bang as you might imagine and was only a tiny bit of play.

I have slightly stiffer quantums and never had an issue. We have pretty bumpy roads around here and if anything I would say its the smoothest set of shocks Ive owned yet and my only niggle has been the progressive range of the rear being a little too open.

Could you let someone else from here drive the car for a second opinion? Where abouts are you?

[Dominic]

It may well be worth checking other suspension components, bushes, toe links. Also, these cars are very sensitive to the geo set up, so I guess you are right to be getting that set up.

[AllanS2]

Cheers guys,

Yes maybe you are right, thing is I got a bit carried away and got this one without driving others so no benchmark for how it should feel comfort wise. Met Shug once, had a wee shot but he just mentioned the rear damper was shot. I should probably have done a full bush refresh before swopping the shocks...Hey ho!

Anyone local want to take a drive? See what they think?

Location: Ayr