S1 rear toe-link balljoint hub spacers.

[2F45T4U]

Ive just done a wheelbearing on the NS rear.

when i took the outer toe-link off the hub, i noticed the spacer (approx 10mm) was above the hub, ie under the nut and not on the balljoint side with the shims.
I have the later type of balljoint with the integral stud.
Ive checked the manual and it looks like this is wrong and that it should be on the underside so that it acts with the shims. But its not 100% clear. My 'conical spacer' doesnt appear to be conical, and the plain washer has a countersunk hole which is a bit random and it seems a bit thicker than i'd expect a plain washer to be so im not sure if that goes on the top or the bottom.




ive checked the other side and they have both been set up the same so here iam asking for assistance.


cheers,

[2F45T4U]

[roadboy]

Do you have steel or ali rear uprights?

Dan

[tut]

Bloody hell, thought that you had been put out to stud............

tut

[2F45T4U]

Steel

[roadboy]

Bloody hell, thought that you had been put out to stud............

tut

Me or him?

[roadboy]

If you have steel uprights you will have the same setup as early S2s. There should be one spacer above and one below the upright.

Bump steer must be horrendous on that.

Dan

[2F45T4U]

Thanks Dan.

Do you mean the wider of the two on the bottom with the shims and the countersunk washer on the top with the nut? Or is the washer classed as a shim and there should be a plain washed under the nut?

Bump steer has always been bad but its been in this configuration for all the years ive had it.

Cheers.

[2F45T4U]

After and before shots, but what one is right? can someone check their car and let me know?

cheers,

[Stephen]

Here is mine late S1 all be it snapped!

[2F45T4U]

Thanks for that Stephen.

Seems mine were right the first time. The spacer must go on top to give the bolt some stretch.

[robin]

I think you are misunderstanding the spacers. In your most recent pictures (after/before) I am not sure which is which. I believe the first picture to be incorrect and the second picture to be correct - the thicker spacer goes between the nut and the hub.

See this assembly diagram:



The correct stack up during assembly is:

Balljoint [40]
Conical spacer [38] with chamfered/countersunk section facing the rubber boot; this part should be about 3mm thick; it's the part nearest your pinkie in the original photo of the spacers and you have it chamfered face up in that picture.
Bump steer washer stack [37]
Hub carrier eye [1]
Thick spacer [39]; this part should be about 10mm thick.
Nyloc nut [12]

Note there is no washer underneath the nut in the assembly diagram.

I once got some flak for putting a bunch of unused bump steer washers between the nut and the 10mm spacer. Personally I can see no reason why any number of washers here will make a difference, but apparently that's why the toe link kit failed ... so it's up to you whether you put 0, 1 or more washers into that gap.

AFAIK the point of the 3mm spacer is to allow for a small radius on the balljoint root (where the stud meets the ball). If it weren't for the chamfer/countersink in the spacer then this root would have to be machined to be perfectly square, or the washer/spacer/hub would get jammed on the radius during tightening.

The conical aspect (which is visible in the diagram you posted) has been "superseded" by simply using some bigger washers that can adapt directly from the diameter of the 3mm spacer to the diameter of the eye in the hub.

I hope this is both accurate and helpful.

Cheers,
Robin

[2F45T4U]

This explains it perfectly Robin. That plus the photo from Stephen demonstrates the setup was right all along.
Although im sure you can see where the confusion has come from...

What you're saying about the countersunk washer makes sense. This should be countersink face down (against the ball) if this is the case.

If anything i can see there being more stress placed on the stud when less than the prescribed washers are used. Using more will make it less tensioned for the same torque applied but there should be no reason why it would break prematurely.

Since someone has clearly thought about this and added the spacers i'd go with nothing more than a plain washer under the nut.

[2F45T4U]

Ive changed them both back as discussed.





Thanks for the help.

Fraser

[robin]

P.S. I think the top spacer is literally there to make it easier to assemble because you don't have to wind the nyloc down so far on the thread before it starts to clamp - I don't think it's there as a "torque" relief on the bolt - the point of tightening torque is (normally) to reach the point at which the bolt stretches and I would guess that for a given M10 bolt of this type, it's happy to be stretched across its full length just as much as across the shortest possible length (i.e. just before you run out of thread).

P.P.S. if worried about bolt stretch, you should find a suitable nyloc and replace that double nut arrangement as the only way to stop that coming undone is to tighten up to stretch point across a very much smaller distance than the one discussed above

Cheers,
Robin