Show your love for the scottish government

[c8rkh]

It's funny, when stuff like this comes up the attention usually turns to London and stuff like Crossrail and "there was nothing in it for me" etc etc. What most people fail to realise, like it or not, that over a 33% of ALL income tax raised in the UK is raised from London. So I do find it a bit harsh when a region with around 8% of the population complains about "vanity spend" in a region where almost 20% of the population live (within the M25 of the UK).

According to official HMRC data 88.3% of all Income Tax collected in the UK was from England (£148,812m), 7.2% from Scotland (£12,195m), 2.8% from Wales (£4,800m) and 1.6% from NI (£2,644m) - (based on taxpayers post code).
If you look at Capital Gains Tax, 92.9% is collected from England (£6,560m), 4.4% from Scotland (£309m), 1.7% from Wales (£122m) and 1% from NI (£69m).
Total HMRC receipts based on geographical split of North Sea Revenue are 86.9% England (£533,686m), 7.7% Scotland (£40,989m), 3.3% Wales (£17,819) and 2.1% NI (£11,116)

So given the above, it's hard to criticise capital spend in England on stuff that does not benefit us. After all, there is a significant capital spend in Scotland (Forth Road Bridge, M74 motorways etc...) that does not benefit the rUK if the same argument is used.

So given that public spending is funded by 2 things, tax incomes and debt. The bigger question, or fact, that we need to accept and live with, and then understand what independence will result in, is the Public Spending per head indicator. So, in England it is £8,529, in Scotland £10,152, in Wales £9,709 and in NI £10,876.

Given the source of income for public spending it does seem hard to justify the difference per capita in the regions. Surely, if we are being truly fair the spending limit should be fixed the same as we ALL live in the UK and so we ALL should be given the same opportunities?

As for free prescriptions and education, yes, let's me it free for everyone in the UK. Then we'll be over run by feckless and useless graduates who will only get out of bed for £40k a year and a company car and will expect, and complain like billy-o if it does not happen, to be the company CEO by 30! What a great plan!

So shoe on the other foot. If in the rUK you constantly heard the bitching and moaning coming from the SNP about how it's not fair for Scotland, and you looked at the figures, what might your response be? I suggest that increasingly it will be "well fcuk off then" and don't come crying back if it does not work. I think based on the facts of the figures, that might well be regarded as a fair response. I don't like it. But I can understand it.

The nub of the problem for me is that we, in Scotland, need to stop thinking about the past. History is just that, history. We need to look forward and we need make the best of what we have, rather than bitching, moaning and whinging about how unjust things are. I mean, unjust! Christ, heavne forbid if any of us in Scotland lived in Africa, many parts of Asia, South America or the middle east. Then you would really see what unjust was. We have it so bloody easy here that the only things we have to bitch and moan about are first world issues.

If we go independent, then so be it. But we cannot except anyone to come running over the hill to bail us out and for once, we need to take responsibility for the mess we create and we need to live with the consequences without spending 400 years blaming the English for it. Maybe then we'll batter the chip on the shoulder for once and all.

[campbell]

I don't want independence from U.K. and I don't want to leave Europe. No one will change my views on these things. But I will make the best of the hand I'm dealt.

Moaning and spatting about it all just wastes energy and brain cycles which I can better spend on finding ways to make it work for me, my family, my friends, colleagues and clients. Simple really.

[j2 lot]

Interesting figures Andy. Thanks for posting. I am firmly of the opinion that whatever's our preferences we have had our referendums and the results stand. Let's get on with the job in hand and move forward.

[Scuffers]

Interesting figures Andy. Thanks for posting. I am firmly of the opinion that whatever's our preferences we have had our referendums and the results stand. Let's get on with the job in hand and move forward.

++
Yes, well said Andy.

Speaking from an English perspective, if the referendum had been in england to ditch Scotland, you would have been cast off in seconds (and no, I'm not saying I hate Scotland etc etc...)

[Corranga]

Interesting figures Andy. Thanks for posting. I am firmly of the opinion that whatever's our preferences we have had our referendums and the results stand. Let's get on with the job in hand and move forward.

++
Yes, well said Andy.

Speaking from an English perspective, if the referendum had been in england to ditch Scotland, you would have been cast off in seconds (and no, I'm not saying I hate Scotland etc etc...)

I'd have thought the majority would simply wonder why the hell they were voting for that in the first place..
I'd also have thought that pre-indy ref, England would have been happy to keep us Scots, but post-indy ref the tables would have turned, or they still won't care.
I guess it's all down to the spin that is turning at the time really.

This thread is very good at demonstrating what the current Scottish Governement / SNP / Independence campaigns have done to Scotland overall though. It's very much divided.

I don't want independence from U.K. and I don't want to leave Europe. No one will change my views on these things. But I will make the best of the hand I'm dealt.

Moaning and spatting about it all just wastes energy and brain cycles which I can better spend on finding ways to make it work for me, my family, my friends, colleagues and clients. Simple really.

Hmm. I almost agree. If everyone subscribed to this sentiment, then it would work, but there is an element of rolling over and letting it happen in there too.
For example, if 'No' campaigners (is this still something you can 'campaign' for??) shut up and let the 'Yes' lot continue with their rants, then we'll find ourselves with another once in a lifetime opportunity.

I agree the EU ship has sailed though, and we should be prepared to plug the holes, bail the water, raise the sails, scrub the decks, or simply get the sun cream, sandals and socks out - whatever it takes to keep us alive and floating.

[campbell]

I'm not rolling over. Brexit decision is taken. We get on with it. Indyref was too. But one side didn't like the answer. I'll hold my ground on that one indefinitely.

[c8rkh]

So if we have another Indyref in 2018 as is being said, and the decision is "yes", and it will be close, do the "No's" then take the Scottish Government to court to try to stop independence as they did not like the result, leading to, a decision for best out of three so Indyref 3 in 2020. Then whichever party wins, the other then complains how unfair the result is so e go into 2024 for indyref 4?

Meanwhile, back at home. Education has collapsed, the police are nowhere to be seen, half the population is waiting in A&E car parks just to get to the back of the A&E queue and our economy has collapsed, all because those in power have been fighting over "independence" rather than working collaboratively to secure and ensure a stronger, safer, healthier future for the current Scottish, and future Scottish, generations!

This is my real gripe with the SNP and the "Yes" campaign. It is independence at ANY COST and quite frankly I am not prepared to sit by and just pay the cost. It also seems to be totally irrelevant that the one party who peddles Independence, the SNP, is in Government but is not even able to get a MAJORITY government in Scotland. So, despite Sturgeon whinging and banging on about the how the Tory Government in Westminster doesn't have relevance to Scotland even though they have a UK wide majority government, no-one seems to be banging on to Sturgeon that actually she has not been given a clear mandate by the people of Scotland, you know, by the majority, to push on with this independence at all costs strategy. The SNP is barely relevant to Scotland as a Government if it cannot even get a majority, surely? I have no idea why she is given such an easy time, and the SNP are not hauled over the coals for this but can only guess that actually, when it really comes down to it, nobody really cares enough from the "No" campaign to keep the fight going. As a result, Scotland will sleep walk into independence and will sleep walk into the no man's land of not being a part of the UK nor being a part of the EU. And believe me, there will be absolutely zero appetite or will from the rUK to offer any kind of assistance to Scotland if she stalls, to wobbles or falls. But then at least we can spend the next 400 years collectively blaming our malaise and issues on the English, or anyone but ourselves, so life goes on as normal. So nothing to fear then. Cool. Must go for a drive now.

[Rosssco]

I don't see how people can get frustrated / annoyed at this thread - the reason its here (or part of) is that we are still even talking about major constitutional change, less than 2 years after Scotland had a chance to cast they're vote in a fair referendum.. If our beloved Scottish Administration / SNP (the true true Scots mind), accepted democracy, then there would be significantly less threads like this..

On the potential of Indy2, I sincerely hope May has the backbone to just flat deny another vote. No doubt there will be "democratic outrage" (we get that on a weekly basis anyway!) etc. etc. Salmond will go into full red puffy mode again, while Sturgeon will try to act more frowny in future interviews, but hey, tuff..

Ps.- I always smile at the "£5bn for crossrail" type comments - only recently the SNP were getting all frustrated that many billions were not being immediately spent on the Heathrow upgrade (because it will benefit Scotland), plus I'm not sure how the residents of Hackney will benefit from the £700 million being spend on the Aberdoom bypass, or the £1.5B on the new Forth crossing.. etc.

[Rosssco]

How about free prescriptions and free education for a start?

Just on this one - nothing is "free" in this world. Prescription costs come out of the other parts of the NHS / social care budget, meaning all those millions given out and wasted on prescriptions (there is LOTS of waste) comes out of some cancer treatment centre or operations at some hospital.

Like wise the free uni education - agreed for those from lower income house holds to allow access to higher education, but for students from lower income families, its actually slightly harder, as while they get they're fee's paid, they've cut the bursary size significantly, meaning it'll cost you more to fund yourself through uni..

Both are excellent for the middle-classes, politically "nice" headline-grabbing sells and perfectly suit the populist ideals behind the SNP, as the majority of they're votes come from those content not to dig too deep into what's actually happening..

Also, ironic that on "independence" some of the first things to be scrapped to account for the major fiscal tightening required (undoubtedly) are likely to be the "free stuff" noted above

[Sanjøy]

Just this week we had a lovely conversation between two committed "socialists" on the best way to avoid tax on one of their buy to let portfolios

Any details on this?

[r10crw]

In the event of an Indy Vote 2 resulting in Yes it will most certainly not come from the north or north east of Scotland, every person I speak has literally no support for SNP. Many even admit to it being a mistake and some land it at their own door. We have family in Livingstone and they are the complete opposite but not sure if this is similar across the board?

Anyway in said situation perhaps we need a divide at Stirling Bridge where by "we" dont accept Indy Ref 2...

[greyrigg]

In the event of an Indy Vote 2 resulting in Yes it will most certainly not come from the north or north east of Scotland, every person I speak has literally no support for SNP. Many even admit to it being a mistake and some land it at their own door. We have family in Livingstone and they are the complete opposite but not sure if this is similar across the board?

Anyway in said situation perhaps we need a divide at Stirling Bridge where by "we" dont accept Indy Ref 2...

Down here in D&G is the same, basically, the central belt has got it wrong A wee indy sandwich.

Malcolm

[mckeann]

Oi, don't tar all us central belters with the same brush.

April 2017 is the start of a drift apart in 40% tax rate that will see me take home less than people I work with who live south of the border. fcuk SNP cnut

[Rosssco]

You can turn so many of the so-called "democratic deficit" arguments on their head if you start to regionalise parts of Scotland.

Its ok for ALL of Scotland to be "dragged out of the UK against their will" (to use SNP / cultist vernacular) because the majority in the urban areas of the central belt vote a certain way (despite people north of the central belt having sometimes very different priorities) , but its not ok for Scotland to be "dragged out of the EU against their will", as that would be undemocratic, obviously..

[Jamie Satriani]

So if we have another Indyref in 2018 as is being said,

I know life expectancy is pretty low in Scotland but 4 years is now a whole generation !.

Personally I think Sturgeon is one of the most untrustworthy and deceitful Politicians we have ever had in Scotland, many people I speak to here in Fife cant stand her, there is something profoundly nauseating about her, I can no longer bear to listen to her speak when I see her on TV, It gets turned over instantly, you know what will be getting spouted anyway, its the same sentences over and over again, I believe the majority of Scots are sick to death of hearing her.

The xenophobia she has for England knows no bounds, she is full to the brim with hate, and a particularly devious dragon to boot.

SNP.... Seriously Negligent Pisstakers.