Tesla Model 3

[robin]

The overnight power loss might be down to needing to heat the batteries, depending on how cold it is where you are parking it. I don't know for sure how this works, and probably it is different in the model with the heatpump, but somehow or other they need to keep the batteries above approx 0c and the only way to do that when parked is to use some energy from the battery to either drive the heatpump (your car) or burn it in the motor coils (my car) and then pass that heat through the pack coolant.

I've noticed this more in ours recently when (a) we've not been driving anywhere much (b) it's cold!

Could also be that your phone bluetooth is in range and the car is waking up all the time thinking you're about to open the door ...

There's a Norwegian who does real world road tests on all EVs - he did a comparison between the heat pump model and the "old" one. The side effect of the heatpump is that the batteries run cooler when you're at motorway speeds (assuming you need to heat the cabin) and so the charging is slightly slower than the older model as the batteries take that bit longer to hit full charging temperature. On the plus side, when you then drive off, the heat that's in the battery pack is used to heat the cabin . Note: if you program in a supercharger as destination it will pre-heat batteries as you get close to the charger so you will only notice this using unscheduled stops, or with non-Tesla chargers (where the car doesn't preheat the pack).

One pedal is truly magic. I miss the insane engine (regen) braking every time I drive the Audi and resent having to press the brake pedal. First world problems, eh!

[timmsky]

One pedal is truly magic. I miss the insane engine (regen) braking every time I drive the Audi and resent having to press the brake pedal. First world problems, eh!

I find the same, when I jump into one of the vans or the other half's car, it takes a moment to reset the thinking that this thing isn't going to brake itself

There was a software update recently that now defrosts the charging port too, that could be draining power overnight a little too. I find these mornings I set the climate to be at 21 with the heated seat on about 10 minutes before I'm due to leave the house, I really don't mind spending 6 miles of charge to be able to enter a warm car with defrosted windows

As you say, 1st world problems

[rawsco]

I know there is no dedicated battery heater, I think it just vibrates the stator with some fancy electromagnetic waves and runs coolant past the motor to heat the battery. Whether the heat pump draws the energy from this I don’t know but it makes sense to from an efficiency perspective but might be counter productive to keeping the battery warm. Maybe it’s both air and coolant sourced.

Last couple of nights it’s been a little warmer so got up with the same charge as it was parked with. (My home charger wasn’t installed correctly so isn’t working). Perhaps as Robin say just keeping itself toasty.

[robin]

I don't think it is battery heating after all. I think it only heats the batteries when on charge and when you've remotely turned on the climate control.

Whether it is the motor windings or the ambient air heat pump to provide the heat who knows! Either way it will use some energy to get the job done.

Cheers

Robin

[mik]

We’re 4 weeks into our first EV ownership too. It’s mrs mik’s and getting an EV was really important to her.

As we have dugs, nothing from Tesla or Polestar was really ideal. XC40 all-electric was interesting but is still 4 months away and CarWow & Volvo did their level best not to sell us a car.

Hadn’t really been aware of the E-Tron till ScottA on here mentioned it. Now we have a Launch-Edition 55.

It is not a sports car, but then that’s not what we were looking for. It rides extremely well on air suspension. Like really well. It is pushing more than 2.5tonnes. That’s more than a body-on-frame Disco4. Performance therefore won’t worry many Tesla variants, but 5.5 to 60mph is plenty quick for a chunky SUV IMHO.

5th gear did a head to head test against a ModelX which was marginally faster in a straight line, but VBH banged the E-Tron round consistently 6 secs faster per lap. (1m04 vs 1m10), so the chassis has some ability/grip. Again – this is probably of close to zero relevance – I don’t expect many maximum-attack sessions in this.

It doesn’t have the same range as Tesla either at just over 200miles, but with our usage that will rarely concern us.

Launch -edit means big spec. Ours has optional 21” 15-spokes. The virtual mirrors do take a bit of getting used to – the inboard passenger side screen isn’t a million miles from where you expect an external mirror to be, so no biggy. The drivers side definitely isn’t though, and the viewing angle reduces the visible screen image size. Like the one-pedal driving – after 10-15mins driving it feels totally natural to look where the interior vents are before changing lane. At night you can clearly see what is behind with zero glare. It appears the little Honda-e virtual mirror system may offer a better design solution though.

Particular highlights include the 705w Bang & Olufsen stereo. (another option). Seriously immersive, clear mids and highs with thumping bass (inc 10” sub in the boot) yet - crucially - not a rattle or buzz from anything inside. It’s really easy to pick out details in the music – partly ‘cos the background noise is so quiet – but it is the best in-car system I have personally experienced by quite some margin.

This option is overshadowed by the Matrix LED lights for me though. Smart “black holes” created real-time around approaching cars on country roads – everything else remains lit up like daylight. Eerily efficient and just wonderful.

A new era....

[ScottJ-PS]

2.5 tons. Jesus. France has now introduced new road tax, an additional 10 euros per kg over 1800kgs. Good idea but I’d reduce weight limit to say 1300 kgs . An XR3 in my day wasnt much heavier than a modern Elise . Still fitted 4 lads, weekend bags and a dug.

[mik]

Toyota released the MR2, but were savvy enough to realise their faux-pas and named it the MR for the French market.

Audi appears to have gone one stage further, in that I don’t think they have changed the name for France. The word “etron” means “turd” en Francais. Brilliant.

I can’t therefore see it being a big seller in le frogland, but on your figures the additional road tax for the e-tron would be around €7000 per year?

[Mikie711]

2.5 tons. Jesus. France has now introduced new road tax, an additional 10 euros per kg over 1800kgs. Good idea but I’d reduce weight limit to say 1300 kgs . An XR3 in my day wasnt much heavier than a modern Elise . Still fitted 4 lads, weekend bags and a dug.

But had absolutely no crash protection or safety systems. Folded like a cheap suite when it hit anything and rusted away before your very eyes especially the mk4.
But other than that they were great

Rose tinted specs on there Scott?

[Mikie711]

We’re 4 weeks into our first EV ownership too. It’s mrs mik’s and getting an EV was really important to her.

As we have dugs, nothing from Tesla or Polestar was really ideal. XC40 all-electric was interesting but is still 4 months away and CarWow & Volvo did their level best not to sell us a car.

Hadn’t really been aware of the E-Tron till ScottA on here mentioned it. Now we have a Launch-Edition 55.

It is not a sports car, but then that’s not what we were looking for. It rides extremely well on air suspension. Like really well. It is pushing more than 2.5tonnes. That’s more than a body-on-frame Disco4. Performance therefore won’t worry many Tesla variants, but 5.5 to 60mph is plenty quick for a chunky SUV IMHO.

5th gear did a head to head test against a ModelX which was marginally faster in a straight line, but VBH banged the E-Tron round consistently 6 secs faster per lap. (1m04 vs 1m10), so the chassis has some ability/grip. Again – this is probably of close to zero relevance – I don’t expect many maximum-attack sessions in this.

It doesn’t have the same range as Tesla either at just over 200miles, but with our usage that will rarely concern us.

Launch -edit means big spec. Ours has optional 21” 15-spokes. The virtual mirrors do take a bit of getting used to – the inboard passenger side screen isn’t a million miles from where you expect an external mirror to be, so no biggy. The drivers side definitely isn’t though, and the viewing angle reduces the visible screen image size. Like the one-pedal driving – after 10-15mins driving it feels totally natural to look where the interior vents are before changing lane. At night you can clearly see what is behind with zero glare. It appears the little Honda-e virtual mirror system may offer a better design solution though.

Particular highlights include the 705w Bang & Olufsen stereo. (another option). Seriously immersive, clear mids and highs with thumping bass (inc 10” sub in the boot) yet - crucially - not a rattle or buzz from anything inside. It’s really easy to pick out details in the music – partly ‘cos the background noise is so quiet – but it is the best in-car system I have personally experienced by quite some margin.

This option is overshadowed by the Matrix LED lights for me though. Smart “black holes” created real-time around approaching cars on country roads – everything else remains lit up like daylight. Eerily efficient and just wonderful.

A new era....

How f%%kin' much
For a Q5/A4 with a washing machine motor, or two of them depending on spec.
The RS E-Tron is rumoured to be £150k

[Mikie711]

There really needs to be a concerted effort to bring the price of electric cars down from the stratosphere before you get anything like the take up the government want to see. Unless of course you just want an electric car with sh*t range for nipping around town.
I think we will see prices start to come down in the coming years but right now it's going to be only for people that can afford it not people that would benefit from the potential saving EV's could generate.
People won't ,en-mass, buy into the ecological side if it's going to cost them more money in the longer term. They may say the will but the reality is they won't. Few will swap their golf/focus/whatever for a Tesla 3 if there is a big cash difference, what's needed is a sub £30k EV to challenge that market segment with good range and decent performance. Tangible benefits is what folk want, and that's before you look at how much real difference our little Island can make in real terms.

[tonyg]

The other thing to throw in to the mix is -
Do you honestly think that the people who have the family Range Rover, Bentley and another two are going to buy anything electric for the benefit of the environment?

[mik]

Blah blah blah

How f%%kin' much
For a Q5/A4 with a washing machine motor, or two of them depending on spec.
The RS E-Tron is rumoured to be £150k

I don’t like spending money any more than anyone else, but a Q8 would be a more direct non-EV comparison. They’re not cheap either. And buying a 2month old demonstrator with 1400miles on the clock provided a 21% saving on list - which sweetened things a little. Not a lot...

[Mikie711]

The comment wasn't aimed at you directly more at the premium price that EV's are commanding which I think is unjustified. Electric motors likely cost considerable less to produce than ICE, granted batteries will be pricey but still.

[mik]

Which is a fair point. I’d love to know what sort of % cost the drivetrain accounts for in various ICE car segments. Given that all EV are very expensive, and it’s a competitive market, I’d like to think the high prices do reflect the costs of the batteries / controls etc, but you do have to wonder whether they are preying on people today who want to buy EV and will therefore be willing to pay a premium to do so.... rather than people who have to buy EV....

[fd]

EV battery costs are about $230/KWh and falling, they have almost quartered in the last 5 years, of course battery sizes have increased at the same time, one aspect feeds the other. That is a manufacturer cost. The EV drivetrain excluding the battery is significantly cheaper than ICE tech. Onboard electronics and software are a rapidly increasing percentage of the BOM for the vehicle (observe how much money VAG spend on onboard electronics and software, and how much it costs them when it doesn't work - ID.3 for example - do not buy for a year). So batteries are getting cheaper quickly, the drivetrain is cheaper, the body electronics are increasing in cost, assume the metal bits are a relative constant . . . in 5-7 years EV's should be roughly affordable. At the moment they are for early adopters with the cash . . . they don't save anybody money . . . Tesla are starting to sell access to their supercharger network to other OEM's, which means the glory days for Tesla owners will come to an end and the lack of charging infrastructure will be a real pain, for everybody, whether the UK will have the money to do anything in a couple of years will determine whether there is a charging network or cart horse tracks . . . I'll be running a stellar milage diesel for as long as possible, a nice big top spec one, hopefully up and down the autobahn.