Why don't I like Honda K20's

[CIN]

2ZZ Water pump for comparison.

[KingK_series]

2ZZ Water pump for comparison.

Which is immeasurably better than the Honda, and will provide significantly better results, but is still not a truly efficient design, because the impeller back is flat, the holes are to cool the bearing but will encourage cavitation, and the blade form is not the refined shape it would be ideally.

[CIN]

Here is a better picture. The pulley is also under driven compared to the 1ZZ-FE in the old Toyota 140bhp Elise S

[foz01]

Any pictures of the selector fork

[CIN]

Selector for for what? 2zz, k20, or Rover K18?

[foz01]

Yota engine

[CIN]

Hey. Sorry but I forgot about this. Do you mean the shifter shaft that goes in the gearbox or the actual forks?

[KingK_series]

Any pictures of the selector fork

Incidental to the subject of the thread, but another reason not to like the Honda conversion, is this weakness in the 6 speed box, this out of a honda converted Elise


the honda box is actually a reworking of the old B series 5 speed box, along with some nice features like triple cone synchros, the gears have simply been narrowed to fit the 6th into the same casting. The layshaft pinion failure was common on the b series box too.

[Rich H]

WTF should that look like?!

[KingK_series]

WTF should that look like?!

Here is a pic from a book on gearbox building, showing same issue on the b series box
teeth arre not totally stripped on this shaft.

[Rich H]

Wow!

[roadboy]

another reason not to like the Honda conversion, is this weakness in the 6 speed box

Simon, that is utter nonsense! One of the most reliable and over-engineered gearboxes I have ever worked with. It's a shame you spoil your great technical posts with the clearly biased nonsense.

The only problems I have ever seen with Honda boxes is where people have used the wrong oil.

How reliable are Quaife PG1s that make your tuned rover lumps comparable to Honda conversions?

Dan

[r10crw]

Have to agree with Dan, Honda boxes are renowned and Ive never even heard of an issue with normal power outputs. Simon that gearbox you have shown must have had a reason for the failure like 500 ponies? Very few PG1s have been tested with big power so I believe its still something of an unkown?

[KingK_series]

another reason not to like the Honda conversion, is this weakness in the 6 speed box

Simon, that is utter nonsense! One of the most reliable and over-engineered gearboxes I have ever worked with. It's a shame you spoil your great technical posts with the clearly biased nonsense.

The only problems I have ever seen with Honda boxes is where people have used the wrong oil.

How reliable are Quaife PG1s that make your tuned rover lumps comparable to Honda conversions?

Dan

Read the text in the book on gearboxes........................ there is someone whose buisness IS gearboxes

but I agree most honda boxes are solid it is just that the b series/k20 box has particular issues


as far as Quife is concerned, their parts are notoriously unreliable, none more so than their 6 spd seq which uses no OE parts.

Had 3 of those break repeatedly, all now replaced by Sadevs fror totally trouble free running and race wins

[KingK_series]

Have to agree with Dan, Honda boxes are renowned and Ive never even heard of an issue with normal power outputs. Simon that gearbox you have shown must have had a reason for the failure like 500 ponies? Very few PG1s have been tested with big power so I believe its still something of an unkown?

Firstly the pg1 is a honda box, when fitted with oe parts or my parts it has run over 300bhp faultlessly, the only change I make is to replace the bearings for all metal caged bearings.


This honda box came from a s1 with a sc honda engine

- the weakness in the honda is the diff is huge, therefore the pinion is small and gets disproportionately loaded in both b series and 6 spd versions, read the text, I did not write that book.