Power!

[Mikie711]

340r's box is different again, it's the UCR with even closer ratio's. However your unlikely to come across one second hand for anything but silly money. Cost me quite a few pounds for the straight cut one I've got, but you need an engine to match it. The normal Cr box is fine with the standard engine.

[pete]

I was in new territory at KH on Saturday driving Clarks bog standard S2. I expected to be blown away by the more powerful cars, and the acceleration on the straights did feel sluggish, but I was lapping with the S/C Exiges and making up on the corners what I lost on the straights. However on a longer power circuit it would have been different.

I did quite a few laps with George(gdr), in fact he backed off part way through on the straight to give me the lead, and I don't think that I was holding him up.

However although it was fine as one off, for the next KH I will be quite happy to be back in N3.

tut

To be far though Tut I've always found other peoples' cars to be faster too.

I've yet to meet anything that can keep up with those Corsa you get from Holiday Autos, for example.

[pete]

Driver instruction first. Go on a Walshy day, see what you are capable of. Then spend money on teh car if you must.

[Shug]

340r's box is different again, it's the UCR with even closer ratio's. However your unlikely to come across one second hand for anything but silly money. Cost me quite a few pounds for the straight cut one I've got, but you need an engine to match it. The normal Cr box is fine with the standard engine.

UCR was an cost option on the 340R - that not all went for.

[Ardiem]

I just noticed that Andy Walsh comes up to Crail now and again - would that not be a better option than an 800 mile round trip to Essex? I've not been to Crail before so I don't know the condition of the track - is that a factor in preferring Essex? Or perhaps the weather?

[tut]

In days gone by unfortunately. He is fully booked up at North Weald most of the time, so not worth his while coming up here.

tut

[gdr]

I was in new territory at KH on Saturday driving Clarks bog standard S2. I expected to be blown away by the more powerful cars, and the acceleration on the straights did feel sluggish, but I was lapping with the S/C Exiges and making up on the corners what I lost on the straights. However on a longer power circuit it would have been different.

I did quite a few laps with George(gdr), in fact he backed off part way through on the straight to give me the lead, and I don't think that I was holding him up.

However although it was fine as one off, for the next KH I will be quite happy to be back in N3.

tut

was much more entertaining following and attempting to keep up with you on the bendy bits Tut!
The extra power is handy for getting past stuff that is quite quick in a straight line but not through the bends though, that can get frustrating unless the slower guy co-operates. My pet hate is cars that pull over on the straight to let you past but don't lift off.

[kevham]

Interesting discussion and I think the advice given is spot on. My perspective is from over 10 years of trackdays followed by 3 years competing a fairly standard MX-5 in sprints and hillclimbs.

On any normal day, I should be thrashed by a standard Elise in my MX-5 (simple physics - 120bhp in 750kg compared to 140bhp in 1050kg). However, I have (very occasionally) beaten some seriously modded Elises in the past, sometimes by a margin and I attribute this mainly to differing driver experience (although sometimes its the weather!).

Last weekend, for example, I was sprinting at Three Sisters (near Wigan). The key to a good lap is carrying speed through a long sweeping right hander on to the back straight. In my class was a very well sorted S2 (Randy's Nitrons, Scholar with Jenveys and Emerald - around 180-190bhp). My best time of 89.84 secs was over 1 second quicker than his best of 90.91 secs. He's beat me on several occasions before - but always where it's been a relatively simple test of grunt. Whenever its technical, I seem to have the edge. I should point out that I was beaten by an MGF so it's not that I'm a driving god - it's just that my experience and ability to carry more speed through critical corners made up for the deficiency in power to weight against the S2.

So, my advice is to forget spending money on the car for at least 2 years and spend the money on driver training and track time. It's much more rewarding, much more fun and provides much more speed per ££ spent than any modification to the car. Once you are consistently at your limit, then upgrade the car. One reason I've bought a VX is because I've reached a plateau with the MX-5.

[robin]

There is no substitute for time in the seat - of course some people are naturals and some people have to work at it - but everybody gets better with experience (all other things being equal).

You can climb the learning curve faster with help from more experienced drivers and/or paid for tuition with the likes of Andrew Walsh - how you approach it is up to you of course - I hadn't driven anything resembling a fast car until 10 years ago when I bought my first elise - did a couple of track days (I wish I had some videos to show just how bad I was!) and quite a lot of road miles, then fell in love with the ring and did lots and lots of trips and laps there - then I did a day with Andrew Walsh on his road course (he doesn't do that anymore either ) after I had a big accident - a lot more track days and eventually a couple of his airfield days; he is very very good and I would bet you'll leave with some better understanding of what you're doing and how to do it better. After all that I'm still only average amongst the SE track day regulars I would say, but that's mostly because that's all the talent Allah has blessed me with - in those 10 years I have still come a long way

Along the way I've owned a lot of Elises and modded some of them, others not. I think it makes little to no difference to start with, and suspension changes probably make the biggest difference overall (in terms of fun); of course a 300BHP super charged Honda conversion will give you a lot of chance to be a straight line hero but in all other respects will be counter-productive until you've gone through the learning curve.

I think it's worth upgrading the cars as and when stuff is broken (as said above), or when something obviously isn't working when you're able to push the car harder (brakes and suspension, typically).

150BHP is a sweet spot in the Elise - that's more-or-less where you'll end up with the head you're talking about - I see no reason to hold off doing that if the head is available when the C-service is due - it's going to be reasonably cheap. I say it's a sweet spot because I think on road tyres it's a good power-to-grip ratio - it's never going to wheel spin you off the road for having too much power, but it will allow you to force the car to slide when you want it to (I think - I don't really do that sort of thing ) and on track it will let you use the full rev range in all four gears. The hurdle to 160 is quite a lot bigger and without chucking a fair bit more cash at it, 160 engines can be quite a compromise (the cheap way is to use cams, but they compromise the car for day-to-day road use, and on track unless you're good at managing the revs/gear change, etc.).

So, spend your money on track days, go on road runs (remember, drive within your limits at all times - they'll wait for you at the next turning), do some driver training, schedule in canny upgrades as and when it's cost effective. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck this way rather than splurging on a lot of upgrades that you don't need.

BTW, the standard airbox is absolutely fine for the sort of horse power you're talking about - if you still have it, refit it and sell the noisy air filter on ebay to help pay for proper upgrades.

BTW BTW, don't remove the cat - it's smelly and unfriendly to whales (and Wales, if you're Welsh).

Cheers,
Robin

[campbell]

viz the fun we had in UJI at Donington, eh

[ClarkyBoy]

I have a Billy Basic 2001 S2, with std RE40 bridgestone Tyres, Suspension etc, all i have is a K+N, 52mm TB and VVC inlet manifold - giving no real increase in power as i have std exhaust + Cat,

I felt my car faired pretty well against some big power and big money toys at KH last sat, with a couple of unexpected blue flags to allow my little 118bhp toy car past, i think that the best improvement for me would be sticky tyres, better set up supension to allow more front end grip,

but i honestly think a well driven S2 will kep up with most cars round KH, of course on the straight its a case of pull in and let the faster cars pass you, then catch them again by the 2nd corner!!!! hehe.

Also i got tut then Joe from KH to put me and my car through its paces for a few laps, that was a big help too!

[Ardiem]

Some really useful stuff from everyone here, it all adds to the Wiki in my head.

Robin, I still have the original airbox but the K&N K57i filter I have, was given to me from my brother's MGF, I doubt anyone would buy that on Ebay as it was cheap to start with. I only fitted it to make the car sound less like a bluebottle, is there any advantage to refitting the original airbox? There's been a few murmerings about the replacement head dropping power lower down the rev range, do you find that too? I was only looking for a modest boost to help on the straights but without affecting the power delivery or handling elsewhere. With this in mind, is the head still worth a shot (bearing mind it would be a relatively cheap way to get closer to that 150bhp sweet spot you mentioned)? Tut pointed me in the direction of 'Lotusless for a year' thread which has tempered by enthusiasm for the head somewhat but my experience with Ali has been OK (so far) despite the negative reviews by some others. I have no plans to remove or bypass the cat as I'm fond of sea mammals too (and those melodious Welsh folk) - would that not fail the MOT on emissions anyway?

I'm very keen on getting some proper training and doing more track days and the consensus is that is the way to go so thanks all for your tuppenyworth. Trying to convince my mate to do a Walshy day in his 2008 Elise R (which someone reversed into last week) so we may have a convoy going down. Is there a limit to how many can do it? the website seems to focus on groups of 4 -is that the limit?

[Victor Meldrew]

Some really useful stuff from everyone here, it all adds to the Wiki in my head.

Robin, I still have the original airbox but the K&N K57i filter I have, was given to me from my brother's MGF, I doubt anyone would buy that on Ebay as it was cheap to start with. I only fitted it to make the car sound less like a bluebottle, is there any advantage to refitting the original airbox? There's been a few murmerings about the replacement head dropping power lower down the rev range, do you find that too? I was only looking for a modest boost to help on the straights but without affecting the power delivery or handling elsewhere. With this in mind, is the head still worth a shot (bearing mind it would be a relatively cheap way to get closer to that 150bhp sweet spot you mentioned)? Tut pointed me in the direction of 'Lotusless for a year' thread which has tempered by enthusiasm for the head somewhat but my experience with Ali has been OK (so far) despite the negative reviews by some others. I have no plans to remove or bypass the cat as I'm fond of sea mammals too (and those melodious Welsh folk) - would that not fail the MOT on emissions anyway?

I'm very keen on getting some proper training and doing more track days and the consensus is that is the way to go so thanks all for your tuppenyworth. Trying to convince my mate to do a Walshy day in his 2008 Elise R (which someone reversed into last week) so we may have a convoy going down. Is there a limit to how many can do it? the website seems to focus on groups of 4 -is that the limit?

Yep, 4 is the maximum.. you can do a 2 person day but in my opinion, youd be better off doing two four person days back to back..

I will be aranging one later in the year. you and your mate would be more than welcome to tag along with Noops n me...

[kevham]

I'm planning to do a Walshy day in October/November too. Just need to confirm how much I need to spend on the car first (having said all that about training )

[Victor Meldrew]

I'm planning to do a Walshy day in October/November too. Just need to confirm how much I need to spend on the car first (having said all that about training )