S3 Elise unveiling in March?

[Mikie711]

A light weight, technically advanced i.e. carbon, composite chassis and components would not IMO detract from th Evora in anyway as the market for each car would be entirely seperate. That said thier statement said it would be agressively priced, but against what?. I don't see this as meaning it's going to be cheap in fact quite the opposite.
Looking forward to the launch but like many, it would seem, a bit under whelmed by the supposed choice of engines. Would have thought their starting point would have been around 200bhp with the enevitable upgrade path to follow. S1 was originally 118bhp with 190 to of the tree, S2 ' yota started at about 160 then 190 etc so you would have thought the natural path would be onwards and upwards.
I also doubt that they will get the weight down that much due to safety requirements etc for the US market.

I guess all will be revealed in time................

[DDtB]

So just to re-cap....

The cost to pick up an average S1 is currently £6k.

A 850-900kg Elise variant is a joke unless it has at least 200 ponies.

No point in releasing a lightweight, stripped out Lotus Elise variant anyway, as the market is limited and those who want that kind of thing will spend £40k-ish on a 2-11.

What we want is more comfort, gadgets and horsepower from the S3.



Interesting.....

[pete]

Were it not for the speculation elsewhere which reads as if someone has insider info I would guess Evora RS. Stripped out, lighter, faster.

There's a market, it must be in the pipeline and the timescale would seem to be about right given Lotus' normal release rate for modified models.

Pete

[Edinburgh 111s]

So just to re-cap....

The cost to pick up an average S1 is currently £6k.

A 850-900kg Elise variant is a joke unless it has at least 200 ponies.

No point in releasing a lightweight, stripped out Lotus Elise variant anyway, as the market is limited and those who want that kind of thing will spend £40k-ish on a 2-11.

What we want is more comfort, gadgets and horsepower from the S3.



Interesting.....

It is all about what will sell the most cars for Lotus, and help keep them in business. There is a market for light weight Elise platforms - most people on this forum would agree, however i would guess that the people who are going to buy a brand new car want the best of both worlds, and it is these people who will help keep Lotus in business. There are plenty other options if you want a stripped out Lotus, both new (2-11 & 260 cup) and second hand ( S1 & S1 Exige)

Lotus will make a car that will sell, and most of their sales come from the USA - and on that basis i guess the S3 will be lardy and have some gadgets and luxury. That is why 130/160 is not enough.

[DDtB]

Lotus will make a car that will sell, and most of their sales come from the USA - and on that basis i guess the S3 will be lardy and have some gadgets and luxury. That is why 130/160 is not enough.

I think you're pretty much spot on there!

[tut]

Just checking on Pistonheads Dave, and the average price is well above 6K.

WillB has two '97 LHD S1's on at £13K.

tut

[DDtB]

Just checking on Pistonheads Dave, and the average price is well above 6K.

tut

I should bloody well hope so too!!

Seems some people put their 'mcardle-goggles' on when talking about car prices on forums these days though!

[pete]

Just checking on Pistonheads Dave, and the average price is well above 6K.

tut

I should bloody well hope so too!!

Seems some people put their 'mcardle-goggles' on when talking about car prices on forums these days though!

Elises will always make good money.

Simply market forces - they are cheap as chips to run. Mine has been looked after but goes wrong, purely because the repairs it has needed (all just the engine) have been done badly but even despite that it is cheaper to run than a diesel Xsara! Yes the same money will buy you a Porsche but you'd better have deep pockets for when it goes wrong. Mates have Scoobies which they upgrade but they never work right and they use sooo much fuel.

You can pick up an Elise for hot hatch money and run it for less. Less fuel, massively supportive clubs and third party manufacturers even cheap insurance if you are experienced (my Mulipla insurance is similar money to the Elise!).

Anyone who does any research can establish that you can run them for less than a family hatch and get something which car nuts respect and non-car lovers equate with Ferraris.

It's just Maths. Forums de-value them because they are just thinking they depreciate like normal cars but the economics are far different.

[kenny]

I find myself agreeing with DDtB a lot in this thread. This is worrying.

However, as much think a lightweight 130bhp car would be great, I can't see it being anything close to S1 weight. I am sure the technology is there to do it but at what cost. If they could get it to S1 weight then I still think they need a little bit more power, later series are supposed to be an improvement on the original afterall.

[gorrie]

Just for the record (in case 'mcardle-goggles' was meant for me), I didn't say an average S1 was £6K. Maybe 1.5-2yrs ago you could pick a tatty one up for that, but they have been few & far between at that price for a while.

I said I thought that due to the amount of S2's around compared to S1's, I suspected that the releae of the S3 would eventually push S2 values below the S1. I wouldn't be surprised if in time that levelled off at £6K though. You can get 60-70K miles K-series S2's for circa £9K already if you look hard enough, so there is already a cross-over occuring.
If they price an S3 'aggressively'... even if it is a 130bhp model, it's surely got to affect 1yr old S2 'S' models.. which has got to have a ripple effect.

Andy.

[Scotty C]

Were it not for the speculation elsewhere which reads as if someone has insider info I would guess Evora RS. Stripped out, lighter, faster.

There's a market, it must be in the pipeline and the timescale would seem to be about right given Lotus' normal release rate for modified models.

Pete

Nick Adams was working on a more track focused road version of the Evora but it was shalved.

[Lazydonkey]

I find myself agreeing with DDtB a lot in this thread. This is worrying.

However, as much think a lightweight 130bhp car would be great, I can't see it being anything close to S1 weight. I am sure the technology is there to do it but at what cost. If they could get it to S1 weight then I still think they need a little bit more power, later series are supposed to be an improvement on the original afterall.

I think the issue is that to most people a new car without power steering, abs, traction control, air con, leccy windows etc is unthinkable.

So, sadly i think Dave is right.

[max1966]

Is the key to rapid acceleration not more a component of torque as opposed to bhp?

Balance up the lightweight, which is surely inevitable in a lotus (albeit comparative if you add in all the toys) and the more torque laden modern engines and i would think you could have a reasonable performance from an engine delivering 130bhp.

My Fabia vrs is only 130bhp but the in gear acceleration is outstanding, looking recently at replacing it and wanting a more free revving petrol small car I was looking at the new Alfa with the Multiair engine which delivers maximum torque from 1750rpm, only 120bhp but 206Nm of all important torque. Also the all important low CO 2 figures and good fuel consumption.

Clever engineering to my untrained eye and surely a good solution and would deliver excellent performance even more so in a lightweight car.

[vx220]

Is the key to rapid acceleration not more a component of torque as opposed to bhp?

- if thats the case how do you explain the performance of motorobike engines even when fitted in cars? They tend to have decent bhp figures and relatively low torque figures

[BiggestNizzy]

Is the key to rapid acceleration not more a component of torque as opposed to bhp?

- if thats the case how do you explain the performance of motorobike engines even when fitted in cars? They tend to have decent bhp figures and relatively low torque figures

bhp is torque x Rev, and a bike engine goes to massive rev's
therefor

if a bike engine is producing 100bhp at 14,000 rpm and a car is producing 100 bhp at 7000 rpm then the car engine is producing twice the torque.

torque is the thing that pushes you back in your seat.