Bring Back Overtaking Both Sides !!

[gorrie]

Vid from the Dreadnought night at Knockhill on Thursday. Excuse my wifes language...
In the past, the Dreadnought nights have allowed overtaking on either side... but it seems that KH have a blanket 'left side' policy now. This is the result... check the 911 having to squeeze through on the pit lane exit near the end of the vid.

This was the 1st session of the night, so the overtaking rules were still clear in everyones minds. Thankfully, the Puma blew up in the pit lane 5mins later and the rest of the night went without a hitch.

Marshalls should be shot as far as I'm concerned...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56s1B0fH4Q

Andy.

[kenny]

There was a Subaru doing the same today, the breifing mentioned blue flags and as per usual I didn't see a single blue flag the whole day. That said the aforementioned Scooby was shown a black flag 3 times before he evntually came in and let the train of cars by.

[mac]

There was a mini who left just slightly more than a cateringvan sized space between itself and the pitwall.

Still, It was a space and I did pass on the correct side - don't think I would have tried it in the elise though


Mac

[Stewart]

Whilst I agree that that was extremely frustrating, I am not convinced that overtaking on the right would help. I was under the impression that overtaking should only ever be with the consent of the driver being overtaken? Pretty certain that overtaking on the left works 90% of the time, for the other 10% would overtaking on the right make too much difference - I'm not too sure.

Good idea backing off and letting someone else have a go, no point increasing your own stress levels. As always Karma won through

Stewart

P.S.
Nice camera set up

[tut]

I have done left, right and both, and it probably is better to conform to the left. For the experienced drivers in upgraded cars it probably does not matter too much, but I think for others it would cause confusion, and most of the time it is working out well.

However I do see it from a different point of view from many drivers, my car is well known, and I have hardly ever had a problem. If I do, I am polite and just draw along on the right hand side on the straight, and smile sweetly. The only time that it did not work was with a blue Scooby, so after three laps Wullie black flagged him.

tut

[mac]

Biggest issue with overtaking on both sides is when one slow car pulls to the left and another pulls right - they effectivly block the track and your left with nowhere else to go but onto the gas (example is the blind exit of Clarkes)

At least this way there's always an "escape route"


Mac

[gorrie]

It's the first Dreadnought night that I've done which has been left only... and it's the only time I've been blocked like that... which is why I started off the thread asking for both sides to be brought back.

Stewart, you are right... going either side would have been dangerous in this situation, as it's clear that mirrors were not being used... so nothing to stop me getting wiped out on the right. The black 911 had massive balls... or he just couldn't stop in time... either way, his fate was in the hands of luck going in to turn 1...

I guess my main gripe is at the Marshalling... had there been a proper accident then I would have held them 50% responsible in my mind...

[Victor Meldrew]

I think FULL BEAM and the horn as you go under the bridge would be enough to wake up the sleepy marshalls....

It aint cheap to do track days, and if half of it is wasted stuck behind some numpty...

Perhaps one of our more experianced senior members....(Tut?) could mention it to the knockhill officials during the driver briefing that the drivers were actually expecting to see the blue flags being used.. diplomatically of course....

[Sanjøy]

Devils advocate, did anyone who has been involved in such incidents actually speak to the chief Marshal ? Last few sessions I have been to they always as you to come speak to them mid session if you have any problems to prevent internet chattering.

2p

SP

[gorrie]

I was about to... but the session was red flagged when the Puma blew up. It was clear it wouldn't be taking any further part in the evening so I let it go.

[tut]

Good points. I will have a diplomatic word with Ian and Wullie.

Ian actually calls me at times reference posts that he has read criticizing KH, normally on PH, and does take action if it is relevant.

The blue flags have been used several times on past Trackdays, but not consistently, and lately never. However problems most often occur on the other organisors days, SIDC and tt have had few problems apart from red flags.

I find the most annoying problem is cars going off on the warm up laps for which there is no excuse, and also early on in open pit lane, especially in the wet, when it is common sense to build up speed gradually until you know the cars capabilities for the conditions.

It is a different matter spinning or running off later in the session when you are exploring the cars limits in a safe environment, we have all done that, but avoiding causing a red flag should also be a priority.

tut

[campbell]

Couple of perspectives on this.

First, it certainly seemed that you were really backing off and the Puma was barely above warm-up pace. That is indeed some hold up. For up to one lap, I think you can excuse someone generally. After one lap, I agree it's a PITA, selfish and bordering on dangerous. I have to say on lap 2 I would have been right on his bumper so that he was clear I intended to go quicker. Or doing the Tut Weave

Second, the Puma did look to be developing a problem...increasing amounts of smoke. So we could give the driver the benefit of the doubt, as to being distracted by the engine problem and thus not paying attention to mirrors etc.

Third, the answer is very simple I'm afraid. Pull off, do a "drive-through penalty" in pits then back out at a different point in the traffic. If you are really boiling, park the car up in the pits and talk to the Chief Marshall. There is no other way, passing on the left only is laid down for good reason and if anyone breaks that protocol accidents or near misses are inevitable. But it's important to feed back at the time, as John Stewart always stresses - afterwards, nowt can be done. It only costs a few mins to nip in and brief the Marshalls...better than it costing your car and the entire session through frustration

Hopefully you enjoyed the bulk of the session overall.

Take a deep breath!

Campbell

[Scotty C]

I think overtaking on the left works fine, everybody knows what is going on, especially if you’re a newbie.

It is up to the marshal's to blue flag the people or even Black flag them and give them a talking to.

On Saturday there were a few mobile chicanes at KH. I just wish they would have pulled over after the chicane / before Clarks.

Scotty C

[Andy G]

Third, the answer is very simple I'm afraid. Pull off, do a "drive-through penalty" in pits then back out at a different point in the traffic. If you are really boiling, park the car up in the pits and talk to the Chief Marshall. There is no other way, passing on the left only is laid down for good reason and if anyone breaks that protocol accidents or near misses are inevitable. But it's important to feed back at the time, as John Stewart always stresses - afterwards, nowt can be done. It only costs a few mins to nip in and brief the Marshalls...better than it costing your car and the entire session through frustration


Campbell

Very very valid point - and better than driving through any red mist. Wish i had such moments of clarity when on track

[campbell]

Very very valid point - and better than driving through any red mist. Wish i had such moments of clarity when on track

Andy, that red mist is certainly very, very, VERY hard to work through. A real test of our mental strength and maturity and not something I am well known for, to be fair