The Shugmobile Conversion Thread

Post by **ironside** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:18 pm

How about the other immob, the Cobra one? Or has this already been considered?

Simon

mac · Post by **mac** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:22 pm

For the love of god shug - please tell us you have discounted it!

Otherwise we could all be the age of Tut and Simon I will still be saying "I might have blown my engine up - but at least I fixed Shug's car for him"

Post by **Shug** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:52 pm

ironside wrote:How about the other immob, the Cobra one? Or has this already been considered?

Simon

Yes dear. I also have a photograph for you. It features a funnel on top of the engine and a mysterious syrupy liquid being poured in.

Legend states it prevents massive engine failure....

Post by **ironside** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:12 pm

Shug wrote:But thanks for the suggestion Simon and sorry about the uncalled for pisstake

No problem

Simon

Post by **Shug** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:13 pm

Awwwww...

You know I'm kidding sweetie

Post by **ironside** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:15 pm

Is there an emoticon for that thing they used to do in Chewin' that Fat with the hands up at the face and wiggling the fingers? I'm doing that

Simon

Post by **Shug** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:16 pm

ooooooOOOOOOooooooo

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:58 pm

According to my manual the VVC does have a cam angle sensor next to the no.2 cylinder intake - right underneath where that breather hose clips onto the cam cover - the cam should have a toothed ring on it (though I think this may actually be just two phases).

Meanwhile the engine manual confirms that VVC engines do have this, but only on later engines (but this manual was printed in 2000, so there were VVC engines prior to 2000 that have camshaft position sensors - how old is your VVC engine?). It draws the position similar to the Lotus manual, but it draws it on the exhaust side (which is also where the standard distributor-less K4 has it - on the exhaust cams).

IMHO the ECU will not run the engine in sequential mode without knowing the cam phase. The VVC MEMS probably would in batched mode and thus limp home enabled, but I suspect the emerald needs to know the cam phase before it will start the injectors (if it's configured for sequential injection). If you want to prove this, try reconfiguring for batched injection and see if it springs into life.

TBH, the difference between sequential and batched is not enough to worry about so if it runs batched, who cares about the sequential injection

Of course the ECU will never run the sparks until after it has run a complete cycle of the engine with fuelling enabled (otherwise it might detonate a dangerously lean cylinder).

Cheers,
Robin

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:30 pm

Later VVCs do have a cam position sensor according to both the Lotus and Rover manuals ...

The ECU (if it is configured for sequential injection) will require to know the cam phase before it can start fuelling.

The ECU will never commence ignition before it has worked out fuelling.

Looks like a good fit for your problem.

If you don't have a cam position sensor make sure you are configured for batched injection not sequential. *BUT* make sure the ECU knows how the injectors are wired - in the old K16 engine the ECU could fire all four injectors with a single output - OTOH with the euro4 version, the ECU has one output per injector - the Emerald can no doubt emulate all of these provided it is suitably configured and wired.

Why not post the map from the emerald ...

Cheers,
Robin

robin · Post by **robin** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:31 pm

I know those two seem quite similar postings

I typed one, got side tracked, then typed the other but seem to have posted both

Cheers,
Robin

Post by **Shug** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:39 am

Cheers Robin,

I did, last night, try a few things (including confirming that it does indeed have a cam phase sensor and that the resistance path is okay to it) I also changed the ECU to run batch fired (not for that reason, but as something else to try with me running DTHTB's on it) but nothing, nada...

Must have checked every possible cable on the loom (as I'm paranoid about the quality of my rewiring work) However, I think we've narrowed it down to this:

When the immobiliser is armed, the 5AS module is silent, when it is disarmed, it transmits a code to tell the ECU all is well with the world. This is definately the case with my car (checked at the ECU plug with a scope and a multimeter)

HOWEVER

The ECU is *always* telling me that it's disarmed - when it's blatantly not (proved with scope once more) I've tried the re-set procedure several times (complete with a few permutations of uploading maps and powering down/up) and the ECU never reports anything other than the immob being disarmed. You can bypass the immobiliser too in the software, which doesn't seem to convince the ECU that it's okay to fire injectors and sparks. Now, I wouldn't mind if the ECU was acting like it was permanently disarmed, but if the software is reporting erroneous facts, then my hunch is that the immobiliser part of the ECU hardware is faulty...

I've fired an email off to Karl at Emerald to see if he can shed some light on it....

Post by **Shug** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:28 am

robin wrote: If you don't have a cam position sensor make sure you are configured for batched injection not sequential. *BUT* make sure the ECU knows how the injectors are wired - in the old K16 engine the ECU could fire all four injectors with a single output - OTOH with the euro4 version, the ECU has one output per injector - the Emerald can no doubt emulate all of these provided it is suitably configured and wired.

Why not post the map from the emerald ...

Cheers,
Robin

For more info - yup, my engine had the cam position sensor on the inlet side and the injectors are wired from the ECU to be fired individually. The settings for the engine parameters on the VVC emerald software (which is different to the standard Emerald software) are not stored in the map, but on a live update screen. You can set it to run with or without cam phase sensor and in batched or sequential injection. I tried changing the injection settings to no avail.

It was really the erronious immobliser screen which was the only thing that stuck out - even if it's not the direct cause, it's definately not reporting the true facts.....

One point to check - is the fuel pump controlled outwith the ECU? It is the only thing which behaves as it should with the immobiliser (primes when disarmed, doesn't when armed)

Post by **Shug** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:54 pm

Update - Karl at Emerald has asked me to return the ECU and he'll re-set everything and try to get it working.

robin · Post by **robin** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:32 pm

Crank is gated by the actual immobiliser, the crank relay (and hence the crank/ignition switch) and the alarm module.

Fuel pump is gated by the actual immobiliser, the fuel pump relay (and hence the 'MEMS' which enables the fuel pump relay).

So if your fuel pump runs when immob disarmed and not otherwise, that's not surprising, but it does prove that the ECU is at least enabling the fuel pump relay.

I might be inclined to check that the Main Relay is being energised - without it, the ECU has no external power to drive the coils/injectors ...

An easy way to know if it is on or not is to see if the ignition coil gets live switched to one side of it (it has a permanent live - the ECU controls the -ve side to make it spark). If you can hear your IACV move that also proves the main relay is energised.

Cheers,
Robin

Post by **Shug** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:41 pm

robin wrote: I might be inclined to check that the Main Relay is being energised - without it, the ECU has no external power to drive the coils/injectors ...

An easy way to know if it is on or not is to see if the ignition coil gets live switched to one side of it (it has a permanent live - the ECU controls the -ve side to make it spark). If you can hear your IACV move that also proves the main relay is energised.

Cheers,
Robin

Checked feeds to coils. Definately there, just not earthing to fire the coils. Oh, and what IACV?

ECU in the post - Karl seemed to agree with me about there being an issue with the immobiliser control in it. If it's actually okay, then I may be giving you a phone call <BG>