Suspension

[mwmackenzie]

I have the S2 LSS on my S1 and think they are great..... I'm very happy with the handling but maybe slightly stiffer springs would make it a tad better with less roll but all in all I'm happy with it. I have only done 1 trackday with it and I loved it, could just be that i'm new to the Elise in general though....... Only have hankook tyres at the mo so T1Rs or khumo's will be the next thing on the shopping list.....

Good luck with what ever you decide...

Mark

[ceejam]

A very interesting debate this one, and Robin has suggested something I was thinking of - Bilsteins with a heavier front ARB was something I was thinking about. Soft sprining for the road to soak up bumps, but a havey ARB to stop the front "falling over" during track corenering!

The Bilsteins kits do seem to get a generally good write up for general use, and Nitrons are the ones for real track use.

I like the idea fo being able to go faster at Knockhill, but if I make the car too stiff / track orienated it will spoil it for me on the road.

SO... I am thinking a Steve Butts Bilstein kit (what's his contact details?) with an uprated front ARB. I will probably go for the uprated toe links.

I may try A048s, but would be interested to see how much difference the suspension makes on it's own

Cheers for all your advice, seems to have got some slightly different responses to other threads I fouind, so looks like we're all still learning

[Rich H]

Steve is on SELC*CK use the memebr search thingy

[alicrozier]

A very interesting debate this one, and Robin has suggested something I was thinking of - Bilsteins with a heavier front ARB was something I was thinking about. Soft sprining for the road to soak up bumps, but a havey ARB to stop the front "falling over" during track corenering!

I think it's important to stress you look at an adjustable ARB (Robin did say that).
e.g.
http://www.eliseparts.com/shop/index.ph ... cts_id=312

This is thicker hence stiffer than normal but allows for adjustment. You'll want it on a soft setting for road and wet trackdays but can stiffen it for a dry track. It's quite a quick job to adjust, 1 bolt either side (I have a stiffer 5 way Lotus Motorsort ARB on my Exige).

I think you're right sticking to the road tyres for now, you will feel the benefits of the suspension changes and they will give you a more progressive feel (albeit ultimately less grip) to exploit the car to the maximum.
Fair enough slap some 48's or 888's on when your tyres become the limiting factor...

[tuscan_thunder]

Look at the tyre angles in your photo.

The tyre is not tremendously distorted.

The ARB will control the roll but it is essentially an undamped spring and there will always been an equal and opposite reaction to what it does.

A stiffer rear ARB will affect traction, a stiffer front ARB will promote understeer. (assuming no other changes)

As said elsewhere here, start with the tyre and work up.

(In my experience, A048s heat up far faster than R888s and work better in cold temperatures. Obviously the Yokos are more expensive.....)

[robin]

At the limit, does the car oversteer or understeer in it's current setup?

If the spring is running out of travel on the front (you're hitting full bump) then you will lose grip at the front as soon as that happens. Assuming that isn't happening (probably isn't) then if the car currently tends to oversteer, shifting some of the grip to the rear with a stiffer front ARB won't hurt I think.

The other advantage of getting the S2 biltstein kit or LSS is that you can run a lower ride height - this in itself will cause there to be less body roll, assuming that the current center of gravity is above the roll centre of the car (it will be). By lowering the ride height you can run the same spring rates with less body roll, but obviously there are limits - go to low and the soft springs will allow the chassis/body work to his the floor/tyres.

Or you could just buy an S2

Cheers,
Robin

[tut]

and go downmarket...........

tut

[Matelotman]

I have Gaz's on my S1, set at 120/110, geo'd and running on T1R's and I've never had any handling problems..... they are pretty hard though even with the dampers turned down (might be the springs??)

[campbell]

Be really careful on 2 counts:

1) Expecting suspension to let you go faster on trackdays...unless you are a very competent driver, you will get more from generally upgrading your skills first

2) Unless the car is used predominantly on track OR you are prepared to suffer a hard and potentially crashy ride on the UK's now appalling roads, stay away from highly uprated spring setups.

A set of Steve Butts S2-for-S1 Bilsteins and brackets will give you vast improvement in ride quality, longevity and cosmetics, as well as a perfectly acceptable setup for general trackday use.

Nitrons need set up carefully. I had Spax adjustables, similar principle, eventually the fickleness of the setup and crashing over local roads did my head in and I bought an S2 kit from Steve. Once fitted, car never rode or handled that well even when new.

Those who do lots of racing or trackdays can give you detailed advice on the advanced options, some have already done so above. But otherwise, an S2 kit is the universal answer IMHO. Oh and if you want stiffer without the need for setup knowledge, the S2 LSS kit is a good answer. But it really is STIFF on road.

Campbell

[hiscot]

i use very high spring rates on dynamic dampers and find them to be better on road than the std s1 stuff or the 350 spring rate ledas i have used
the springs are eibac and i run with the early soft front arb i think its also down to quality and set up
i went for the hard spring ratio rather than the heavy arb route they both do a similar job but in differant ways
my car is used for fast road on road tyres and i now find it planted yet supple instead of bouncy with std stuff or hoppy with the leadas

[mwmackenzie]

I have Gaz's on my S1, set at 120/110, geo'd and running on T1R's and I've never had any handling problems..... they are pretty hard though even with the dampers turned down (might be the springs??)

Your running a higher front than rear? why is this and how do you find the T1R's?

Mark

[Corranga]

If you want bilstiens, go to bell colville. Call them and get them for 450 quid (I think it was anyway). worked for me earlier this year, and the guy said that price was more or less always on.

Do a search, i'm sure I either posted a thread on it, or posted in a thread to say the deal was still available. Would have been back in April or May. I'd look myself, but i'm at work and don't have the time!

Chris

[Matelotman]

I have Gaz's on my S1, set at 120/110, geo'd and running on T1R's and I've never had any handling problems..... they are pretty hard though even with the dampers turned down (might be the springs??)

Your running a higher front than rear? why is this and how do you find the T1R's?

Mark

Cunny funt..... you know what I mean. I've never tried the T1R's on track but I've found them to be good on spirited road runs (it is true what they say about new ones being like soap bars for a bit though)

[campbell]

If you want bilstiens, go to bell colville. Call them and get them for 450 quid (I think it was anyway). worked for me earlier this year, and the guy said that price was more or less always on.

Do a search, i'm sure I either posted a thread on it, or posted in a thread to say the deal was still available. Would have been back in April or May. I'd look myself, but i'm at work and don't have the time!

Chris

Great price. One caveat, the Steve Butts kit comes with brackets which can be chosen to set a variety of ride heights at the time of ordering. The B&C kit comes pretty much 135:135, I think it is, using Lotus' own std brackets. Looks OK of course...but if you want that slightly racy look, you need the brackets (which some say are available separately, perhaps from Bernard Scouse?)

[woody]

If you want bilstiens, go to bell colville. Call them and get them for 450 quid (I think it was anyway). worked for me earlier this year, and the guy said that price was more or less always on.

Do a search, i'm sure I either posted a thread on it, or posted in a thread to say the deal was still available. Would have been back in April or May. I'd look myself, but i'm at work and don't have the time!

Chris

Great price. One caveat, the Steve Butts kit comes with brackets which can be chosen to set a variety of ride heights at the time of ordering. The B&C kit comes pretty much 135:135, I think it is, using Lotus' own std brackets. Looks OK of course...but if you want that slightly racy look, you need the brackets (which some say are available separately, perhaps from Bernard Scouse?)

It's the springs and where the groove the circlips are positioned in the damper body that determine the ride height with the Steve Butts kits. All S2 setups will need to change the rear brackets.