Thoughts please ladies and gents...

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campbell
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:11 pm

This actually brings up a pretty burning question.

At what time / price (if any) are S1 valuations likely to flatten out? Classic Car mag reckoned (albeit a couple of years back) that early S1 prices might eventually level off at as much as £10k (clearly ambitious given what we are seeing). Yet Parker's reckons a tidy S1 of 2000 V vintage (ie, at least 2 years newer than the example in question) is worth little more than £5.5k in private sale and £6k at a dealer.

Perhaps Iain Arfur Daley Boag could tell us what Glass's thinks too?

And then we have "the true market" sitting somewhere in between?

I suppose it simply does just come down to the classic economics of what people are prepared to pay for what is an increasingly rare breed.

I cannot see how anyone could imagine a well looked after S1, almost regardless of mileage, can be worth much less than £7k or so, given what the car offers as a "package". Many of them are in better shape than when they left the factory :shock:
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gorrie
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by gorrie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:17 pm

True Campbell, but, to the casual buyer (not the enthusiast) £7K for an 11yr old car that was only about £20K when new is not the bargain of the century. It's still retained a hell of a lot of that value.
Considering there have been 6yr old S2's for £9-10K on the market, that is the sort of thing buyers will look at. S2 prices are pushed further downwards by the sheer fact that newer/better models are still being made. Unless the S1 Elise obtains true cult status, it's ultimately got to be affected by the older S2's dopping in value

IMO the S1 Elise will not gain the cult status that the S1 Exige has enjoyed (largely due to volume/rarety) so, in comparable spec, I'm not convinced an older S1 will ever command a meaningful premium over an S2 to anyone other than a die-hard s1 fan.

I reckon £5K will be the bottoming out in the much longer term... when you see what S2 Elans still go for.

Again, just my opinion.
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campbell
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:43 pm

Interesting thoughts Gorrie and a very considered opinion.

Obviously I could be said to have a vested interest, as a long-term owner of a "classique" S1 for which I paid the fat side of £25k with the options I specced :shock: but frankly I've had twice that value in fun over the last 10 years so NO REGRETS. Oh and I never bought it to sell it ;-)

I take on board the S1 Exige "cult" status. However the S1 Elise is perhaps less about cult and more about general rarity and signficance in terms of its place in Lotus history, and indeed in the hearts of the motoring press. I mean apart from Clarkson et al moaning about how hard it is to get in and out of, and the allegedly fiddly softop fit, have we EVER seen a "bad" review of an S1?! It is through and through a brilliant wee car and its shape and packaging remain very unique and now quite distinctively recognisable across the UK and Europe. Kinda like certain other Lotuses of old!

If an enthusiasts' market continues (and why shouldn't it) then I would venture that a tidy S1 WILL be of more value than an "equivalent" S2 even if purely on rarity (and some may say looks!) alone. But we shall have to wait to see, perhaps for another 5 to 10 years yet.

I realise that on paper the S2 is a better built car in many ways, and in fact if our family ever comes into money we plan to run the S1 and an S2 simultaneously.

But one cannot get away from the raw simplicity and direct-to-road behaviour of an S1, and after all it is still the car that rescued Lotus. I think that counts for more than we may realise...

Let the debate rumble on, sorry for thread drift everyone :oops:
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by mac » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:01 pm

:withstupid


Paid the asking price for a new S2 (with minimal waiting list) for our car. Don't really care how much it's worth as it's not for sale and the fun and friends it's introduced is something that can be measure by what you jangle or fold.



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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:03 pm

:withstupid

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gorrie
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by gorrie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:29 pm

campbell wrote:This actually brings up a pretty burning question.

At what time / price (if any) are ........
You started it you cheeky monkey... :wink:


/School-boy mode off
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:33 pm

You lost me there, sorry!
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donnac
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by donnac » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:59 pm

When i bought mine about 6 weeks or so ago it was really hard to find a decent S1 with history etc for £7500 or less, everything that was less than £8K was sold within days usually looking at Pistonheads. Some of the S1's are still only for sale for days before they are marked as sold.

I paid £7K on the nose for mine with the hard top which i was more than happy with, i think that car looks good for the money and if you can get a bit off then go for it :thumbsup

Most of the S1's on PH for £7K or less are on the register so its not overly expensive for a geniune car i think. :mrgreen:

p.s would you like to swap the cream seats for red leather? :mrgreen: :thumbsup

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campbell
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:04 pm

Cream leather in a green car would be classy.

But watch those denims ;-)
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by H8OAG » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:36 pm

I agree with most of the observations made already.

Going back to the start of the thread.......The trade values "Ed's S1 for a friend" at £5,100 .
Cruel as it may seem..... there is no fiscal value in all the extras/improvements that might make this particular car better than the day it left the factory.
I agree that the S1 will reach a form of classic status before the S2 , but this will only be applicable to lower mileage examples given the production numbers etc.

So (IMHO ) if this particular model makes more than £6500 then it is a good result.

As Gorrie mentioned........you would struggle to find the same percentage retained value after after 10 years.......in many other marques.
The smart money still remains in S1 Exiges, where good low mileage examples are fetching a fortune.
Unfortunately the strength of the Euro means that foreign buyers are picking them up for 30% less than they were this time last year so they will trickle out of the UK.

(Renmure should be converting his 355 into three Exiges and sit back in his EVO and watch them appreciate in value :D !!)

I will not be drawn into the emmotive debate about which is better between the S2 and S1 .....as Mac states, its not really about that.......it's pride of ownership .

Enjoy your cars

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Hugh74
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by Hugh74 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:44 pm

Hi all,

This is actually my car for sale. Yeah maybe a bit ambitious with price but you've got to try. Plus have spent quite a bit getting it up to scratch. Will be sad to see it go but struggling to justify keeping it in the current economic climate. Plus when its a nice sunny day, I hate to say it but would rather be on my bike.

Anyway car is at Ali's getting MOT and also getting the geo setup. Hopefully have it back this weekend. If anyone wants any more info feel free to call me. Number is on PH.

ps and yes I'm pretty flexible on price! :)

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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by renmure » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:20 pm

H8OAG wrote: The smart money still remains in S1 Exiges, where good low mileage examples are fetching a fortune.
They are???? :shock:
H8OAG wrote: (Renmure should be converting his 355 into three Exiges and sit back in his EVO and watch them appreciate in value :D !!)
I should???? :shock:

well... if nothing else, I like your financial advice although SWMBO might disagree and since she is on the Dinner making duties tonight then I will go with the flow :thumbsup :blackeye
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by H8OAG » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:59 pm

Jim
:D
You know I am just jealous !
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campbell
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by campbell » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:31 pm

I certainly ain't getting into S1 v S2 debates. I'd venture that our long term plan to have one of each says it all.

Anyhoo, I am suitably reminded of my masterplan never to sell our S1. Particularly since, clearly, as a high miler (78k at last check) it's worth buttons and some lucky fecker would be getting an FSH well looked after one-owner-from-new rarely-tracked and never-crashed bargain if I were to sell. Hands off the GRP, then, thanks, I'm keeping it.

;-)

PS - Note to self - DRIVE THE FECKING THING A BIT MORE FORDY

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Mike Scib
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Re: Thoughts please ladies and gents...

Post by Mike Scib » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:19 am

ed wrote:On this car for a friend of mine.
"Friend"?? acquaintance more like :thumbsup
alicrozier wrote:As Robin said, need to be comfortable and confident to push right up to the limit - sometimes you only find the limit by going beyond it...
(that's why I think Mike will do fine, that and his lack of imagination). :roll: :lol:

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