Aussie GP

[Stevoraith]

I was only half watching it on Sunday so missed the actual incident and I'm struggling to understand exactly what happened.

This is what I have gathered, please tell me if I have got it right;
Trulli was in third and Hamilton in fourth when the safety car came out. Trulli then made an arse of it and ran wide, leaving Hamilton not much option but to overtake him. The McLaren team then thought "you're not allowed to overtake under yellows/SC so we better let Trulli through again", which is what Hamilton did. The race then finished with Trulli 3rd, LH 4th.

Then there were the decisions to penalise Trulli and now disqualify Hamilton.

Is this the way it happened?

[j2 lot]

That pretty much sums it up - apart from McLaren didn't tell the Stewards that they had told Hamilton to let Trulli back in front so they have been called to the Headmasters office and expelled for not letting on.

[Shug]

I was only half watching it on Sunday so missed the actual incident and I'm struggling to understand exactly what happened.

This is what I have gathered, please tell me if I have got it right;
Trulli was in third and Hamilton in fourth when the safety car came out. Trulli then made an arse of it and ran wide, leaving Hamilton not much option but to overtake him. The McLaren team then thought "you're not allowed to overtake under yellows/SC so we better let Trulli through again", which is what Hamilton did. The race then finished with Trulli 3rd, LH 4th.

Then there were the decisions to penalise Trulli and now disqualify Hamilton.

Is this the way it happened?

As I understand it yes.

Issue is that if McLaren/LH chose to withhold information about telling LH to give the place back, it leaves Trulli looking like a cheating git. Impression is that McLaren clammed up as they thought they'd dodged a bullet and got a podium. So, Trulli should be back to third and LH DQed as I read it.

[tut]

That is exactly what happened.

I think that McLaren, after past incidents and decisions, decided to take no chance of being penalised, even if they knew the rules, which I am not sure of, so told Hamilton to give the place back.

However if that is the case, then why did they then put in an appeal after the race? Probably because they then checked on the rules and found out that it was a legal overtake. If that is the case then they deserve all they get, they tried to hide it from the enquiry for benefit, which would have been blatant cheating.

tut

[ryallm]

The court of SE pronounces McLaren guilty as charged

[jason]

...we've not heard the end of this one.

"The FIA said Hamilton and McLaren could face further sanctions for the breach of article 151C."

[kenny]

Can...... barely..... contain..... raaaaage!

Looks like it's going to be another season of farce. Reading an interesting book by Maurice Hamilton (5live commentator) at the moment. Seems the underlying feeling throughout F1 is that Max Mosely is hated by all except Ferrari (of course) and he will not stop the harrassment and persecution of McLaren until they are nothings and to hell with F1as a sport in the process.

Thanks Spanky.

[robin]

McLaren had three options:

(a) Don't overtake Trulli in the first place - if that meant coming to a stop on the circuit, so be it.

(b) Overtake Trulli and keep the place.

(c) Overtake Trulli and give him the place back.

None of these appears to be free from risk of attracting a penalty. (c) seems like the least likely one to cause offense. Shame they arsed it up by then not telling the whole truth to the stewards ... but in a normal court you are not required to incriminate yourself - surely Trulli could have mentioned at the time that he felt Hamilton had made it clear he was letting him pass, or maybe someone could have asked Hamilton "did you let him pass", etc., etc., etc.

Total farce. The Brawns/Toyotas/Williams will all be denied any points once the Ferrari diffuser is deemed the only legal interpretation of the rules and I think that will leave them at the top of the manufacturers and drivers championship, where they belong, of course.

Cheers,
Robin

[meatball]

I have no real "team" that I support in F1.....I just want to see some good racing without officials getting involved.
If McLaren tried to cheat then fine....if not, why meddle?

[j2 lot]

If McLaren tried to cheat then fine....if not, why meddle?

Dead right and that is the point - the rules have become so contrived that the Teams don't know what to do to avoid becoming victims of infringement and you have passing and giving back places instead of racing .

[Stevoraith]

McLaren had three options:

(a) Don't overtake Trulli in the first place - if that meant coming to a stop on the circuit, so be it.

(b) Overtake Trulli and keep the place.

(c) Overtake Trulli and give him the place back.

None of these appears to be free from risk of attracting a penalty. (c) seems like the least likely one to cause offense. Shame they arsed it up by then not telling the whole truth to the stewards ...

Spot on IMO.

Trulli made an arse of it, but the general held belief is that you can't overtake under SC conditions under any circumstances so it's no wonder that McLaren then gave the place back, surely that is what common sense says should have happened?

It was a farce to penalise Trulli in the 1st place when he had clearly already been passed under the SC by Hamilton who got no penalty, and it's also a farce to disqualify Hamilton.
I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for McLaren though. If they had said at the initial enquiry that they allowed Trulli to pass as that was their interpretation of the rules then no-one would have been penalised, and everyone would have finished in their rightful places.
Instead they kept shtum, thinking they might get a cheeky free podium and it has come back to bite them on the bum.

[Corranga]

McLaren had three options:

(a) Don't overtake Trulli in the first place - if that meant coming to a stop on the circuit, so be it.

(b) Overtake Trulli and keep the place.

(c) Overtake Trulli and give him the place back.

None of these appears to be free from risk of attracting a penalty. (c) seems like the least likely one to cause offense. Shame they arsed it up by then not telling the whole truth to the stewards ...

Exactly.

surely Trulli could have mentioned at the time that he felt Hamilton had made it clear he was letting him pass, or maybe someone could have asked Hamilton "did you let him pass", etc., etc., etc.

He did. Trulli has said that Hamilton pulled over to the side of the track and slowed down. Trulli then said he thought Hamilton had a problem and felt he had no choice but to overtake. The stewards took no notice of this and penalised Trulli anyway.

I'm no fan of these stewards rulings, but the rule book does seem to be so complex / full of loopholes that it seems they have to exist.

The worst thing to come from this is that they apparently rule in 1 direction before seeing all possible evidence (ie McLaren radio).
Were they waiting for McLaren to stand up and admit it?

I said it last year with regards to the Ferrari/McLaren situations, and i'll repeat it again this year.
If McLaren were really concerned about the FIA, they wouldn't be cheating/holding back information/lodging so many appeals in the first place!

This one is a clear cut McLaren f-up!

Chris

[transglobal]

So..........who won anyway???

[BiggestNizzy]

So..........who won anyway???

Ferrari or they will do eventually

[Stewart]

[Snip lost common sense]

- surely Trulli could have mentioned at the time that he felt Hamilton had made it clear he was letting him pass, or maybe someone could have asked Hamilton "did you let him pass", etc., etc., etc.

In the autotrader article quoted above it says

During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

If this is to be believed it is pretty blatant and in my eyes in a similar vain to Senna running Prost of the road or Schumacher running Hill/Villenueve off the road. Not a huge fan of Hamilton and if this is true I am even less of a fan now. Go Button