Driving to Italy...

[Alistair]

Hatched a plan with Mrs F to do a little trip to Tuscany this year.

Any hints, tips and advice on the journey? Looked at ferry prices to Amsterdam from Newcastle but they are hideously expensive compared to a Dover ferry.

Guesstimate is 3 days travel, stopping off this/that side of the English Channel and again near or in Switzerland. Might stretch the trip there to 4 days if it made sense.

Off to Google Maps.......

[Mike Scib]

We went from Dover last year on FF and i would never do it again, and i do about 50k a year for work so don't mind driving. By the time you account for a over night stay at Dover plus addational fuel costs, stops on route for snacks etc. It not as big a difference as you think IMO. The Newcastle ferry you arrive, dinner, few beers, bed then fresh for your onwards journey

Oh, and the drive home from Dover is so long.....

[Sanjøy]

IIRC last year Rosyth prices were pretty much the same price as Newcastle rather than their usual £15k.

[graeme]

Newcastle - Amsterdam is still the way to go (or Rosyth as Sanjoy says). As Mike said, I don't think you're counting the cost of the stopover in Dover (which you get for free on the ferry) plus do you really want to be spending your hard earned holiday driving through England? Twice? Hell no! Think about coming home too... you've just done a 2 day slog (and it is a long, boring 800mile motorway slog, believe me) to get back to Calais, and you're still a day's drive from home. The thought of that once made me throw away my Chunnel return ticket and book a single ferry back to Hull at great expense.

As for Tuscany, I love it, but it depends why you are going...

If you're talking about an Elisey driving holiday, Tuscany is the wrong destination. The roads are boring and the pace of life there is really laid back. An Elise razzing around on the (very straight, flat) roads would stick out like a sore thumb. You're more likely to end up doing 45mph up the hill to San Gimignano and just chilling out. Getting to all the amazing stuff in the cities (Florence, Sienna) is a job for a rental car which already has dings on it. Italian cities are not somewhere I would take a fiberglass car! Get some £99 flights, hire a Clio and have an extra 4 days in the sun, or overdosing on Botticelli and Caravaggio.

If you really want to see Tuscany, but are thinking of taking a non-Elise car for more comfort and room for suitcases, just fly. The drive is boring and long. Rent a car at the other end.

If you really want a good (Elisey) driving holiday, change your destination.

/2p

[Sanjøy]

... do you really want to be spending your hard earned holiday driving through England? Twice?

I believe anonymous SE member set a PB of just over 5 hours Edin-Dover.

[squid]

We're planning to head-off to Verona in early Sep for 10 days. I'm more interested in spending time in Italy rather than driving there so we're looking at the Newcastle ferry as already suggested, but then taking the German motorail from Dusseldorf to Verona. That would put us in Verona 36 hours after leaving Newcastle, well-rested and reasonably sober. Motorail quite pricey but if you deduct costs of o'night accomodation and fuel, it starts to balance out. And I've spent enough time driving on the autobahns in the middle of summer to want to avoid the thrill!

[Alistair]

Thanks for input so far chaps.

The plan is to take our time getting there - with a couple of stop offs on the way (hopefully find some good roads around Switzerland/Northern Italy for some spirited stuff). Once in Tuscany we plan to relax and not drive so much, followed by leisurely trip home. A bit nervous about visiting cities with the car in Italy but hopefully it won't be too bad

Point taken re Dover - return ferry is £320 for the two of us - so not so bad once fuel and accommodation taken into account as mentioned above. And i know exactly what you mean about arriving in Dover on the way home - would be quite depressing having all that way to travel I think.

Looks like about 800/900 miles from Amsterdam to Tuscany. Would probably like to split that into 2 days driving maybe stopping in or around Switzerland.

Any other hints and tips gratefully received!

Cheers

Alistair

[jason]

We've always used the Newcastle ferry since our location renders Rosyth almost the same travel time away from home (and 'in the wrong direction'), and to then sail past our house several hours after leaving would be disheartening!

Driven down to the Austrian Tyrol or Bavaria on 3 occasions (2xCaterham, 1xElise) by autobahn (principally E35 & E43 IIRC) and it is very possible to be parked-up in time for a relaxing dinner after disembarking that morning and stopping for lunch on the way Passing through any other country (eg. entering Switzerland) always seems to make for far slower progress in my experience.

IMHO there is no better entry to Italy from the north via the Alps than going over Timmelsjoch (Solden to Merano) ...but not really compatible with needing to get to Tuscany in a day's drive.

[europaelise]

Looks like about 800/900 miles from Amsterdam to Tuscany. Would probably like to split that into 2 days driving maybe stopping in or around Switzerland.

Any other hints and tips gratefully received!

Cheers

Alistair

I've done the trip a few of times. The Amsterdam ferry is worth every penny - forget Dover because driving in England is horrible. I've always stopped off at the Nurburgring either one or both legs of the journey - would be rude not to. Never have bothered with Motorail (but considered it) because - in the usual fashion with trains - you get on it somewhere where you are not, and then get off somewhere where you don't want to be....

On a couple of occasions I've left Ijmuiden ferry terminal when the boat's docked, and been in Zug in time for a late dinner. So, the motorail never made sense. I like to then take a meandering route thru Switzerland and enter Italy via Stelviopass. Avg speeds travelling across Switz. are NOT high so you do need to allow a bit of time.

Go for it, get a Euro road map and let your imagination run riot.....

[Stumpy Nugget]

My inlaws live in Rome and I would love to drive there in the Elise. I looked at it and driving through Englandshire was certainly not an option.. Would look to take a ferry closer to here and drive through Europe.. There is just something about driving through England that reminds me of work...

[robin]

I've used motorail before but it just doesn't make sense now - might as well fly there and hire a car.

If you are up for the drive, I would spread the journey out a little wider - not sure how much time you have, but you can spend 3-4 excellent days getting to northern Italy without visiting the 'ring.

Despite what others say I avoid the Newcastle ferry like the plague. It's horridly tacky and forces an overnight at the wrong time in your outward journey. Without doubt my preferred attack is leave Scotland at silly o'clock and get an early chunnel crossing. You can be in France for brunch and this side of the alps for tea. It's a tough drive solo, but if you can share the driving, it's actually not that hard - you just have to be disciplined, stick to your speed limit and slog on.

You have to decide on your top level plan of attack for the alps - I would advise that you avoid Switzerland at all costs. So that means

France-Italy (with optional Austria-Italy leg to cross both the Timmelsjoch and Stelvio passes ) Pretty much this has you heading to Lyon and then cutting in Italy either towards Geno(v)a if you're not doing Austria, or just south of Geneva towards Milano then north to Lecco, etc., via Stelvio crossing the border into Austria at Resia, looping via the A14/A12 and back down the Timmelsjoch to Merano, Bolzano.

or

France - Germany - Austria - Italy. This has you going over the Vosgue mountains into the Sudschwarzwald, round the northern side of the Bodensee, then you can use A14/A12 towards Innsbruck or take your time on some "yellow" roads (plenty of roads around this area). Then turn south heading for Merano via the Timmelsjoch as Jason suggests - it's epic - at Merano head back west towards the Stelvio national park and the Stelvio pass itself (the pass is south west of Stelvio).

Either way, from there head to Lake Garda - it has to be seen at least once in a lifetime as it is beautiful (or was 30 years ago ).

From Lake Garda you're on your own - pick any route you like to the Li-Fi-Pi area (Livorno, Firenze, Pisa). It's pretty heavily populated up north, so be prepared for some heavy traffic and interesting driving as soon as you come out of the mountains.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. If you want to see Lake Garda but not do all the alpine stuff, you would do Lyon - Milano - Brescia to get to Lake Garda.

[robin]

P.P.S I'm assuming the rest is obvious - we tend to head north of Paris and use Reims-Dijon-Lyons to get towards the south east or Reims-Metz-Nancy sort of route for the north east of France.

Cheers,
Robin

[BigD]

Newcastle ferry definately worth the money, if Rosyth could be had for the same money then that'd be the way to go. As Mike said and other you arrive at both ends refreshed, if slightly hung over.

I quite liked driving in Switzerland when we were over a couple of years ago, the scenery around Innerlaken was amazing. I didn't have any trouble with Police or locals just one chap who told me to turn off my engine when I was letting the evo cool down at a stop at the top of the Sustenpass.

[robin]

Obviously your mileage may vary as our American cousins say, but I three very simple rules:

(1) Never stay in Belgium.
(2) Never enter Switzerland.
(3) Boats are slower than cars, even on a bad day.



Love the picture looking down the pass - is it time for French Frolic yet - I need some mountain roads

Cheers,
Robin

[Gooldie]

You have to decide on your top level plan of attack for the alps - I would advise that you avoid Switzerland at all costs. So that means

I did a huge trip round Europe and some of the best roads i encountered were in Switzerland!! Stayed in St Moritz and the roads around there and davos are spectacularly good.

When i have driven to Europe in the past I have always used the Hull ferry and its always been good. Did a quick blast through Northern Italy near Torino and that was interesting, Italian motorways are scary!