Cant get the Geo set..

[Stumpy Nugget]

My car is currently in Drivers in Glasgow getting the Geo set. However, it looks like they cannot get the front camber correct even by taking out all the spacers and trying to adjust the back the bolts will not budge. The theory was that the front camber could be affected by changing the rear but when they tried to modify the rear they came across the fact that it had never been touched in 9 years and the bolts would break if forced.

Current plan is to rebuild it, get new bolts ordered in and have another go at a later date. My question is that should I be worried that even with the spacers out the front will not go to the correct settings? Does this mean something more sinister?

Any advice would be great. I am off to see them now to see if I can get more info. It has to be corrected as the car is all over the place. Cheers...

[Rich H]

IIRC some S2s needed the uprigths shaving to get the right camber. Might be making that up though....

[alicrozier]

That's right, S2's will be lucky to get -1deg at the front.

What is the car? Ride height?

[tut]

Cut out all the hassle Stumpy and swap it for an S1.



tut

[roadboy]

Geary sells different steering arms for the front to get more negative camber. Or you can machine your current ones. You should gain approx. one degree for every 4 mm you take off.

With the bolts on the rear, heat is the answer but you have to be careful not to melt the ball joint rubbers. Replace the bolts with 10.9 grade ones once they are out.

What settings are you aiming for?

Dan

[Mikie711]

You need to check it's the same side to side if not then something is wrong. The tolerances used when bonding the elise chassis together means that if everything is as it should be and you have equal shims right and left then the measurements should be the same if not you need to look for the cause, bent wishbone etc.
Adjusting the rear will have little or no effect on the front, and the bolts will be tight to remove as they will have been permabonded in. You'll be surprised how strong the bolts are, but if you have steel uprights then they are probably rusted in as well.
As you said there was spacers in the front and the camber was out and you can't get back to standard by removing them then the likelihood is something else is affecting the settings. Run a straight edge, ruler or similar, across the arms of the wishbones and see if either or any have a bow in them. I have just had to replace two of them on my S1 for this reason for the second time. Pot hole and kerbs are probably the biggest culprits!!. BTW you can get away with sticking them in a press and straighten them back,they aren't very strong from the get go, they usually bend at the dampener mounting bracket on the lower wishbones.
Had quite a long discussion with Chris Randell about exactly this problem last week.

[Stumpy Nugget]

Been back to get the car and had a chat with them. Firstly big for the service. First class and they were happy to take me through all the details (which I immediately forgot).
However, it looks like the camber at the back can be recovered to what it should be once the bolts are removed... (yes I have steel uprights and from the sounds of things they have never been moved since it left the factory). They also fixed my 6mm toe out problem... yip 6mm at the front.. (and I wondered why it was tramlining... ). So thats a plus..

The main issue is with the front. Basically instead of -0.1 camber (running 130mm ride height) my fronts are at +1.2 and +1.5... the 1.2 is correctable since is has 4 shims, but the other side only has 1, which would mean shaving off 3mm or something from somewhere...

Anyway, they are ordering in spare bolts and then going to get into it with a blow torch and large hammers later in the week.

I will check out all the tips you guys have given me to see if there is anything obvious (steering arms and wishbones)...

Once again - thanks for all the advice..

[Rich H]

6mm toe out would be lethal - you sure it wasn't 0.6mm?

[Shug]

Does sound like a bent wishbone or something, TBH...

[Stumpy Nugget]

yip - 6mm... that what happens when you change the TRE's and forget the number of turns... Car was all over the place going in a straight line - hence the main reason for getting the Geo done.. I had to laugh...

[roadboy]

Ah, didn't realise you were just after standard setup. If that's the case then it is most likely, as Shug says, that something is bent. Either that or they are measuring it totally wrong.

The tolerances used when bonding the elise chassis together means that if everything is as it should be and you have equal shims right and left then the measurements should be the same if not you need to look for the cause, bent wishbone etc.

Not quite Mike. They usually vary side to side by 1 shim (~0.25 degrees) but some vary by a good bit more side to side. There's a lot more tolerances than just the chassis to take into account.

Dan

[Mikie711]

Ah, didn't realise you were just after standard setup. If that's the case then it is most likely, as Shug says, that something is bent. Either that or they are measuring it totally wrong.

The tolerances used when bonding the elise chassis together means that if everything is as it should be and you have equal shims right and left then the measurements should be the same if not you need to look for the cause, bent wishbone etc.

Not quite Mike. They usually vary side to side by 1 shim (~0.25 degrees) but some vary by a good bit more side to side. There's a lot more tolerances than just the chassis to take into account.

Dan

Dan,
I am going by what I have been told by Chris Randell, that if you find that one side is wildly different to the other then you need to look for the cause. In my experience with the my Elise this has been the case. Every time I have had dissimilar readings side to side then something has be f@@ked and needed replacing or repairing. This time it was the rear lower wishbones but hey, maybe it's just me but what he's told me makes sense as the max deflection allowed in an Elise chassis is 2mm so if everything else is as it should be then you wouldn't expect to see much difference side to side. Having said that my uprights front and rear are all the thickness at the top plinth mounts and all the wishbone bearings are spherical with the exception of the ball joints so there isn't much movement in mine.

[roadboy]

Yeah, that's fine, but totally different to what you said in your first post.

Dan

[Mikie711]

No it isn't but if you want to get into a sh!t fight then lets take to PM rather than highjacking this thread

[roadboy]

Not looking to get into a sh*t. Just didn't want everyone who noticed that they had more shims in one side than the other panicking about having bent wishbones. Sorry if you thought I was being pedantic. That was not my intention.

Peace out!

Dan