Upon reflection

[H8OAG]

Gareth said
Sorry to hear you crashed and I'm glad you're OK but for risk of being flamed.

Don't apologise Gareth, I was just about to offer up a similar observation regarding the sad outcome of recent road runs.


Your wisdom comes with age..............you will be buying a 4 seater Ford next.....

[scott_e]

Hi Kevin, just wanted to offer my sympathies too. Hope you are not to bad. Shock is a strange thing. Wishing you the best.

[mac]

Whilst on the subject of road run's, there's a lot of talk in the biker world (so I've been told) about concerns about the pack leader being done if anyone in the following group is caught speeding.

So now, if your deemed to be the organiser you can get done if someone has an accident, if your the group leader and one of your group speeds you can get done and obviously if you get caught speeding yourself - you get done.

I don't see the point in organising runs......best to agree a destination and then it's each man for themselves to get themselve to the RV safely.


Mac

[Lazydonkey]

I don't see the point in organising runs......best to agree a destination and then it's each man for themselves to get themselve to the RV safely.

Is it not a run if you are all going to the same place ?

[mac]

I don't see the point in organising runs......best to agree a destination and then it's each man for themselves to get themselve to the RV safely.

Is it not a run if you are all going to the same place ?

I wouldn't say so. I would say a run would need to take place over a prescribed route. If were all heading to Dom's would that make it a run?

[s29ttc]

I would say no it doesn't.

Wouldnt a run though be defined as a group of vehicles starting at a certain location, travelling along the same route to the same destination.

If we were going to Dom's we would likely be leaving from different location and arrive at the same location which would not be a run, just a large gathering similar to us all going to a track day separately.

[Lazydonkey]

I don't see the point in organising runs......best to agree a destination and then it's each man for themselves to get themselve to the RV safely.

Is it not a run if you are all going to the same place ?

I wouldn't say so. I would say a run would need to take place over a prescribed route. If were all heading to Dom's would that make it a run?

If there are no crap routes and 5 amazing ones on the way to any given point then i'd see your point.

However if we were a group of bikers / car drivers leaving Glasgow / lanarkshire and we said "ill meet you in Tyndrum at 1pm" then i think it would be an amazing coincidence if we didnt meet at some point on the way.

I'm all for going at your own pace but it stands to reason if you're all going to the same place then you're going to meet up at some point - even if it's just for a pee stop.

EDIT : I think the thnig we need to make a distinction between is a massive SE road run and a few mates out for a blast.

[andyc]

I went for a 13 mile run yesterday (Inverness 1/2 marathon) my legs hurt but fortunately nobody got done for speeding.....there was about 1100 of us which is a pretty latge group too

[GregR]

Don't we get the same knee-jerk, tale-of-woe reaction after every run involving an accident? The same scare-mongering comes out again and again; "Organisers get prosecuted for damage done by participants," or, "organiser sued for collision with small family of antelope." It'll be page four of this thread and then someone will bring up 2penceshort's conviction and the fact the account posted on a forum was used against him.

Everyone breathe.

We're all big boys and girls and we all know who's to blame if we fall off the road.

A cautionary, patenral word however - you wouldn't take a group of your children out skydiving, so if the emphasis of the run is 'to get the maximum legally from our cars on the road' then allowing people to come along that have a driving history of 1200cc euroboxes may be deemed by an objective onlooker as a little unwise. Consider the implication of the phrase 'to lead by example'. If you're 'pushing' it, then the newbie might do likewise. Remember that post-counts and veretan joining dates on fora seem to have the effect of implying 'seniority' to newbies. If one of the old hands is doing it, then it must be ok.

I don't know how to resolve the issue.

Some of us like to hit the roads at 100% attack. Others would like to but have 80% ability and that's where the problems arise. No-one can tell you whether or not its safe for you to be driving in a particular manner. Only you know how confident you are in your own abilities so at the end of the day if you over-reach yourself it is over to you to pick up the pieces.

"but he calls me a buftie for driving so slowly on runs"

Don't go on runs then. Push it on the track and gain 'his' respect (why do you care though?!). The answer is not to end up in A&E. Then you're just a fud.

[alicrozier]

I went for a 13 mile run yesterday (Inverness 1/2 marathon) my legs hurt but fortunately nobody got done for speeding.....there was about 1100 of us which is a pretty latge group too

That's more than your cars done...

[mac]

However if we were a group of bikers / car drivers leaving Glasgow / lanarkshire and we said "ill meet you in Tyndrum at 1pm" then i think it would be an amazing coincidence if we didnt meet at some point on the way.

It would mean that one of us is with John or you've gave me the wrong time

For what it's worth - which was would you go to Tyndrum - I would go via Stirling & Doune.

[Stumpy Nugget]

Don't go on runs then. Push it on the track and gain 'his' respect (why do you care though?!). The answer is not to end up in A&E. Then you're just a fud.

Perfect use of the word "FUD"....

[s29ttc]

I have to add on comments above that never have I been on a run or even the track day at Kames where I have been called a buftie or words to that effect. Each person I have spoken to would always say "go at your own pace" and "go as you feel comfortable". The vast majority of people I have met through SE are very mature and understanding with regards to this. I was driving very slowly in comparison to everyone at Kames that day which was 10 seconds behind everyone else. Not one person tried to push me to go faster by slagging how slow I went. The only advise I received was take it at your own pace and then people came in my car and showed me areas where I could improve.

My experience is that the people I have met on SE are by putting peer pressure on others to drive faster than their capabilities and actually my experience is quite the opposite. I have always had it drummed into my head that I should drive within my limits and what I am comfortable with. Always been told to know the destination we meeting and if you lose part of the group just take it at your own pace and we will meet at the next stop so there was never any pressure to exceed what I was comfortable with.

I understand your comment regards the 1200cc euroboxes and but not with your comparison. Skydriving is totally different from going in a car. I presume you wouldnt have much control after you jump out the plane where as cars are different you have an accelerator and brake and you as the driver should be responsible and choose to use each wisely. Its not the case that someone who has came from the 1200cc eurobox would be likely to crash its more the driver to have a certain respect to the different beast it is. I have respected the car over the last 2 years I have used it and kept it within what I deem my comfort zone and *touch wood* its still in one piece. (I had a 1.2 8v clio and a 1.4 diesel pug 206 before the elise)

Therefore I think you just have to have respect and a bit of savy about you and you will be fine in these types of cars!

[jonathannealeuk]

Hi Kevin, I hope the neck is not too sore and you get the insurance sorted - don't be put off a Lotus though!

I like road-runs (although I haven't done ones for ages). In the 'good' old days the cars were pretty much all the same - Elise S1s with a standard K-series engine in them and the drivers were of a similar ability. Every now and again you would get someone with an Exige or 340R who would be quicker - but no-one tried to keep up because it was an Exige or a 340R.

These days if you turn up with a standard S1 you will be "Captain Slow" so everyone turns up with either old cars modded up to their eye-balls or Elises with vastly different specs and engines - yet everyone drives in the same run at the same speeds - cue lots of accidents. Its natural to want to keep up (or even go faster) and that is where the trouble lies.

My last point is to ask - what is a road-run for? Is it to drive your car to the limit (get on track), to keep up with the faster Elise (go racing) to meet with like-minded enthusiasts (better) or see the great Scottish scenery whilst driving a great Scottish road (best of all). I'll just pootle along at the back and catch up at the RV if thats alright with you.

My 2p.

Jonathan

[tut]

Been talking to Shug, and all we need is something in the following format. There could be no comeback on it.

"Hi guys, lets get together for a coffee and a chat next week. How about Banchory on Sunday around 10 ish. We can then go and have a look around either the Castle at Crathes or even Balmoral if it is an open day."

No more is needed. We know what we are doing, we know where we are going. No need for talk of keeping up with etc, those going just need to pm so that we know it is a goer.

Tut Towers is more complicated, but basically it is a getting together here on Saturday after a track day on Friday, followed by a sight seeing tour on Saturday around NW Scotland. If your group is stopped by the police for any reason, then you deal with it, but you will be grilled as to who is the organiser. For the Newbies this has happened every time over the past decade and there has never been a single charge or points given, because nobody was breaking the law, or speed limits where 30's and 40's applied. Anywhere else, although we obviously stayed within the Law even though there was no chance of enforcement on those roads, we have been sensible.

There is no reason that we can not keep up that record again this year, as long as everybody is sensible, and thinks about where they are and what they are doing when they are enjoying themselves. With an Elise it is all about the bends, the straights are just there to join them up.

tut