Mapping The Elise

[Gourlay83]

Rolling Road booked for the 19th April, a few power runs only just to see where i'm at. Pretty new to mapping TBH so looking for as much advise as possible.

I tried many base maps from fellow Stark Kit owners and other K20 tunners. Found one which suited the car best and started to sort out fueling. I went for a target Lambda of 13.0 -1 but again any feedback welcome. I now have a fairly flat Lambda reading and made a huge difference to the car.

I have tweeked the map further for a smoother Vtec point and evened out the low revs but gives a good idea of where i'm at.

Alan

P.S Hondata Kpro ECU and ignore the Closed Loop Tab, its not actually on closed loop.

[steve_weegie]

Hi Alan,

Mapping is great fun isn't it

I'll warn you in advance that I have no experience of honda engines, but I regularly map a variety of Saab turbos.

Getting the fuelling right is definitly the first place to start. I presume that if you're measuring accuratly down to 13:1 afr, you're using a wideband lambda sensor? I regularly run down in the 11:1's but on the turbo cars this can help keep exhaust gas temps down. I find that a good safe starting point is around the mid 12's, to give me enough breathing room to start playing around with the ignition maps.

Can you log knock detection, ignition angle, inlet air temp, afr & injector duty cycle on the same trace? These are all the basic parameters I look at when I'm adjusting my maps, and to a degree each of these parameters will affect the others.

How is knock handled on your ECU? Do you have seperate knock fuel and ignition maps? If so, make 100% sure that you adjust these at the same time as the normal maps - the ECU switching to a knock fuel and ignition map that runs more ignition and less fuel is a quick way to grenade an engine!!

Knock detection is the Number 1 parameter to keep your eye on

PS... Where are you going for a dyno run? I've been meaning to put the Saab one one for ages now

Cheers,

Steve

[Gourlay83]

Thanks for the Reply Steve,

I upgraded to the JDM ECU which uses a Wideband 02, so it will be accurate readings.

The k20 has a knock sensor, which is very sensative. So far no knocks at all. You can monitor the voltage of the Knock Sensor and its well within its bandwidth.

I'll see if I can find a way of showing my entire screen, it has everything you mention and more. Injector duty is hitting %85 at 7000 rpm so will look into bigger injectors. The k20 can advance the cam timing 0 - 50 degrees and each 10 degree cam table can be mapped individualy.

Carried out another power run this morning (Drive to Work ) fueling for WOT is nearly there.

I have booked into Wallace Performance, Just a couple of power runs to see how even a torque/power curve I have. Not interested in huge power, just good safe map drivable map.

Alan

[Scotty C]

you need to meet corbie, he is "THE MAN" for mapping Hondas.

He was a KH last week.

Scotty C

[Gourlay83]

you need to meet corbie, he is "THE MAN" for mapping Hondas.

He was a KH last week.

Scotty C

I did meet him and he has been giving me friendly advise for the last few months, infact it was you who gave me his number. Although, he must be busy because I haven't heard from him in a couple of weeks.

Alan

[Scotty C]

you need to meet corbie, he is "THE MAN" for mapping Hondas.

He was a KH last week.

Scotty C

I did meet him and he has been giving me friendly advise for the last few months, infact it was you who gave me his number. Although, he must be busy because I haven't heard from him in a couple of weeks.

Alan

[r10crw]

Alan I have larger injectors, I believe 550 cc/min sitting at home, if you wanna ill drop them off. I thought generally you were okay until you reached 90% duty cycle? Problem you will soon have will be lack of fuel flow?

[Gourlay83]

Alan I have larger injectors, I believe 550 cc/min sitting at home, if you wanna ill drop them off. I thought generally you were okay until you reached 90% duty cycle? Problem you will soon have will be lack of fuel flow?

I originally thought the same but some are saying you don't want to go above %70 duration. The trouble of changing injectors is I will have to change my fuel pressure/fuel pump (if it can't keep up). Thats more money and more hastle, i haven't heard anyone else changing injectors in a N/A K20 (Standard). I'll ask the Pro's

Thanks for offer though and feel free to pop round anytime you passing.
Alan

[Gourlay83]

Spent my lunch break doing a few more runs.









The jump in Cam timing is when VTEC (Yoh!) engages

Alan

[roadboy]

What fuel pressure are you currently running Alan?

Dan

[Gourlay83]

Dan,

42 psi or pretty sure its 42 psi....

Alan

[roadboy]

3 BAR should be fine for a N/A engine. 3.5 BAR for S/C ones.

If its not running lean then don't worry about it.

Cam advance looks all wrong to me but very like Stark's DTA map too. Do you notice any hesitation when it first goes onto VTEC?

Dan

[Gourlay83]

3 BAR should be fine for a N/A engine. 3.5 BAR for S/C ones.

If its not running lean then don't worry about it.

Cam advance looks all wrong to me but very like Stark's DTA map too. Do you notice any hesitation when it first goes onto VTEC?

Dan

Thats a strange conclusion Dan. My map has nothing to do with the DTA map or anything to do with Stark at all. So don't know how you are coming to that. The base map was from someone who got an independant tuner to map there car after fitting a Kpro. Infact I think you know the guy who wrote that base map very well

Pulls like a B*stard when it goes into VTEC, tried other maps with smaller steps but they just seem to rev with no power gains. Of course, I am purely going on the way the car accelerates and the dyno will be the real test.

Alan

[steve_weegie]

Hi Alan,

All looks like a barrel load of fun.... Stark eh... Hondata.... Stuff of my dreams matey

If you want to start seriously mapping the car, you're going to have to come up with a good system to do so. If i were in your shoes (i wish!) then i'd start doing the following:

1. Sort out the fueling for each VTEC map independantly - hack the vtec config so you're always in the same map & repeat for each map.
2. Do some power runs for each vtec map and compare. Can the hondata software export its logs to excel? You might be able to extract very rough acceleration figures if you can log rpm against time i guess... Best done on the dyno however.
3. Start looking at the ignition timing and see if you can optimise this for each of the vtec maps.
4. After having a look at the results from stage 2, you should be in a position to see where in the rev range each vtec position is making the power and set the cam switchover points accordingly.
5. Do another power run and see how it feels.
6. Spend tons of cash on optimax, become a datalogging recluse and repeat all of the above many many times

If you have the dyno time available, I'd certainly be looking at performing a power run for each of the vtec maps independantly. That way you'll have some sound data to tweak later on the road.

Cheers,

Steve

[Chris G]

Alan has had me out in the Elise on a few occasions and I will confirm that it does not seem to suffer any sort of hesitation!!!