Turkish GP

[campbell]

I think this settles it for me!. Webber is turning away at the moment of contact and they're no where near the curb.

But was the Vettel impact actually just tugging / nudging Webber's steering wheel? Remember they are ultra-fast racks with minimal lock. Just watching the Beeb Forum on iPlayer and it's a great mix of views!

I think the bottom line is, both Vettel and Webber got carried away in their own ways, at slightly different moments, and the result was - predictably - tears. Haven't reached the point where I've seen Horner blame Webber or whatever, but in Horner's shoes I'd be tempted to give them both a serious ticking off, cite the lost points & general champ impact, and ask them to demonstrate the right talents next time out or it's the door

[ryallm]

100% Vettel's fault for me, and I thought Webber was very diplomatic when interviewed afterwards (no repeat of his famous 'that f**king kid' comment ). Must say I have been hugely impressed with Webber recently. Just about everyone wrote off his chances of competing with his super talented young team mate, but instead of it getting him down he has just stepped up to another level. I would love to see him take the title.

Mark

[campbell]

[Stu160]

I would say that Webber was at fault, first of all, it was his team mate that was up his inside, and as he drove Vettel to the white line, which he did not have to do, vettel brakes for the corner, he is on the dirty side of the track, his inside wheels have less grip than the ones at webbers side, so the car moves to the right .......... into Webber, I think Webber is one of the most desperate drivers in F1, and that kind of driving, which he has shown several times this year, is going to result in a driver being hurt, I hope he gets points and a hefty fine for it.
With the electronics on the cars these days, there will be no doubt as to what acually happend, and who is to blame, time with tell.

Good result for Hamilton and Button though, can wait for Silverstone, I hope they have my seats built now, last race I saw the new grandstand still was not built, so dont know where I am sitting.

I and getting ready to order my Force India gear , as I think Paul Di Resta will be in the seat for Silverstone.

Stu

[ryallm]

I think Webber is one of the most desperate drivers in F1, and that kind of driving, which he has shown several times this year, is going to result in a driver being hurt, I hope he gets points and a hefty fine for it.

That will be the desperate Mark Webber who has taken pole and a win in the previous two races, who has cooly and comprehensively outperformed his highly regarded team mate, and is currently leading the world championship

[tut]

Bottom line.

What the hell has conserving fuel got do do with F1 racing?

Bloody farce.

tut

[Clarkie]

[robin]

Tut, they all have to carry enough fuel to get to the end of the race - doesn't matter if there is refuelling or not - you need enough fuel to get to the end from whenever you last filled up, as it were.

The amount of fuel you'll need depends on how long the engine is turned to the max (higher RPM runs more fuel; lower RPM stuck behind a slower car runs leaner mixture). Given that the amount of overtaking is usually negligible, you can work out how much fuel you'll need based on the number of hot laps you think you'll get to make vs. the number of laps you'll be stuck behind somebody else, then add a little for contingency. But if the race then runs at a hotter pace than you thought it would, you won't have enough fuel at the end ...

Vettel pulled a bold move; Webber screwed up (how did Vettel get alongside in the first place?). Had it been any other driver on the inside, I would have squeezed the f*cker onto the grass for sure and would think any F1 driver would do the same. But when it's your team mate on the inside, you need to be sensible - compare Webber's position on track on that lap to the racing line - he should have been drifting right across the track in preparation for the left - instead he compromised his own lap in order to further compromise Vettel's lap, perhaps in the hope that Vettel would bail out and retreat. Vettel assumed he would do the smart thing and pull right. When I first saw the collision I thought that Vettel had spun up the left rear on the white lines ... but I agree that actually it was more likely to be under braking on the dirty side of the track.

Vettel is in the wrong, technically, but from a team perspective, it was Webber that drove them to the crunch and lost the team all those points (the team doesn't care who's first and second provided they're both red bull drivers!).

Cheers,
Robin

[Alistair]

I thought at the time and still do - that Webber realised he had screwed up and tried to "squeeze" his team mate. Any other car on the track then that is fair game - but not your team mate.

If it was a dab on the brakes that caused Seb to veer into Webber then that's understandable (I've never approached a corner at that speed so can't comment!). If he was trying to bully Webber then he is in the wrong.

The telemetry will tell the team everything they need to know but gut feeling is Webber was desperate to keep the lead and should have given his team mate more room - there is a long way to go this year and he might just regret it.

Just my 2p

[campbell]

A fair analysis actually. Maybe Marky was actually Schumy-subtle about what he did and the "obvious" explanation was hoped to divert attention away from him.

Anyway, made for an exciting GP whatever the case. Watching Hammie and Button doing nearly the same thing in nearly the same place made me glad I stuck it out to the end!

Bring on the telemetry readouts though.

[Scotty C]

I think webber was a bit smug about the result, he did only drop a couple of points anyway (2nd to 3rd) and vittel dropped 25.

will be interesting to see what happens.

[j2 lot]

Personally I think Vettel was to blame, but it was good for the championship as it stopped him scoring and Webber going even further ahead and gave Hamilton and Button a wee lift.
Vettel showed lots of promise last year but he hasn't had it all his own way this season and has been a bit grumpy/ miserable/ moany as a result - I am disappointed with his strop, he obviously sees himself as Team leader but Webber has had the better results.

Roll on Canada, BA strike, ash cloud and bad back permitting I will be there

[smee]

I'm not a Vettel fan, I don't hate him like Iused to hate Schumacher but he could possibly go that way (I do still sort of like him though) but I don't think he's 100% to blame. I think it looks like he looses the back end just a touch under braking which sends him into Webber? It is quite bumpy and dirty on that part of the track.

Agree with the views that Hamilton was a bit miffed but fair play to him tht was a nice move to take the place back and I really want to know what Martin Whitmarsh said on the radio.

As another point I hate the "official" driver statements made with a couple of PR folk hovering in the background analysing every word spoken. At least Mark Webber got to speak his mind to an extent in the winners interview but I bet he got a talking to for that. Also it would have been nice to hear what they were saying to each other before they went onto the podium and before Hamilton reminded Mark about the cameras.

[kerryxeg]

If I were there boss, they would both be to blame. From a team perspective, they could and should have avoided each other, I wouldn't be that interested in the details.

They probably both need to take a lesson out of the Mclaren PR face. Lewis and Button look well schooled in providing a united front and avoiding criticism. Behind the scenes, they will be less fussed because they held there positions and got the points, but I suspect Lewis will be asking some questions. He was told "we need to save fuel, both cars are the same" - interpretation ease off to the end Button has been told do do the same so will hold his position. 2-3 laps later .......surprise!

Interestingly, if they had not both been from the same team do you thing the Stewards may have applied a penalty.

Kerry

[GregR]

Interestingly, if they had not both been from the same team do you thing the Stewards may have applied a penalty.

Kerry

I reckon it would depend on who came off worst in a situation like that. If Vettell, as it appears, is saddled with the blame then the Stewards will think he got his just desserts by spinning off to a DNF. If the 'innocent' car had ben punted off the track, then there would/should be a penalty to the 'guilty' driver.

It seems to me like there's a bit of 70 - 30 about this accident - Vettell bearing the brunt of the responsibility. So given that Webber lost out on what could have been a victory to end up third, the stewards probably think that it all sorted itself out rather nicely.

Shouldn't that be the way racing is anyway?