Track / Cherish / Stupid Question

[flip flop]

Been at the back of my mind this poser, thought I'd throw it out there.

Got my first exige a few months ago and have been blown away by how much I love it, gone from being a garage queen porker owner to wanting to track my new baby.

Problem is, coming from a garage queen mentality (for the oldies -that means my car was treated like an ornament not that I was crossdressing in my garage). I bought the equivalent in a lotus. Its an ex lotus showcar (56/220)- exibited on stands around europe, never been tracked, with custom interior and stripes etc in great condition. lotus have been great and provided images on stands with written confirmation etc.

Would you class this as a car with an interesting history and as such keep it untracked and as pristine as possible (or sell it for an enthusiast to do the same, then buy another and track that). Or would you track it and drive it the way it was meant? would this damage the "individual" resale value if any? Am I being ridiculous and its not individual at all?

Even as i write this I can imagine tut swearing at his laptop and calling me a woof! Just thot i'd chuck it out there,

cheers

[neil]

Just about every Lotus is individual in some way or another. Even with the number of cars there were at Tut Towers you'd have struggled to find two the same. So I dont think yours will be worth any more than another of similar spec. If the paintwork's still mint then get it armourfended then get it on the track! It's a waste of the car if you dont

[campbell]

Ask yourself honestly, why are you keeping it garage-queen-pristine?

If for the kudos, then fair enough.

If to preserve "value", then I think you'll need to wait a loooong time while the value bounces and *might* climb back *a bit*.

If to avoid unwanted maintenance costs, then I can just about see that logic.

But cars are for driving and as you freely admit, you are already swaying towards what your Exige can offer. Don't deny yourself the enjoyment, get it out there, if track driving interests you then there is much learning - and fun - to be had.

Take good care of the things which matter on the car and it will fetch what any well-cared-for Exige should fetch when the time comes.

I have an 11-year-old S1 which I've owned from new, have put 87k miles on it, driven round Europe twice, taken to the Ring and ragged it, used on more trackdays at Knockhill than I can remember and even prostituted it round Donington for a day last year. It has been a commuter car since day 1 and took me back and forth to Glasgow in the depths of last winter a couple of days a week. The paint is original (mostly), and whilst a little careworn at the front, it's nothing a bit of wet n dry and a good paint shop can't fix. The interior has been looked after and would only need a re-stitched driver's side kick panel to look as fresh as day 1. I have tried to care for the car, and it is borderline for a minor or even major rebuild, but it still looks great (IMHO) and has offered soooooo much pleasure by being driven rather than tucked up in a bubble (which in any case I could not afford to do).

If you want to buy a Lotus as a true appreciating investment, you need to look to early clean low mileage S1 Elises or even older models, in my unprofessional opinion. But surely that would be a waste, and Colin Chapman would frown down upon you

Campbell

[StiflerMR2]

I think Campbell has hit the nail on the head. You need to ask yourself why you bought it, and if those reasons have changed why have they changed?

I'd just add that on the road you really can't get anywhere near what these cars a capable off, they will blow you away on track. I'm a crap driver but on the track you honestly cant believe how much grip the thing has and how the brakes feel (actually I don't have ABS so it may be different on those cars).

Anyway, in summary, I think you'd be missing out on a big part of the car if you didn't track it but everyone is unique and the track isn't for all. Just watch out because it is very addictive

[tut]

At the end of the day you will make up your own mind, but there are some good pointers above to think about. You are already veering away from the garage queen side, and of course you know my own opinion. However the cosmetic damage to your car will come from the road not the track, in eleven years I have seen a few grown men cry when they took out their pride and joy for the first time on one of our road runs, stopped after a couple of hours, and saw the state of the front of their car. Farm used roads in Summer being the worst offenders.

If you came to sell the car its condition at the time would obviously affect it's re-sale value, but I doubt if its history would. Its amazing what Cinderella can look like before and after.





tut

[ryallm]

Personally I think it is a bit pointless having an Exige an not at least trying it on track. The cornering limits of the car are so high there is no way you can experience what it is really capable of on a public road. Although it makes a surprisingly good road car, it is designed and built from the ground up to be used on track, so providing you don't end up in the armco you won't damage the car. Brake and tyre wear will be high of course, but the Yota engine is pretty bombproof. I tracked my Exige a fair bit, but it was also kept in absolutely immaculate condition - the two are not mutually exclusive. Tracks days are not everyone's cup of tea, and to be honest I got a bit bored with Knockhill after a while (too short, no flowing fast corners like Croft or Donnington), but you must give it a go just to find out what a truly amazing chassis the Exige has.

Mark

[campbell]

Good points, Mark.

Only been in 1 Exige, ever, and that was round KH at the TT event. Totally awesome car but heavily over-qualified for KH duties. Imagine it does need a longer track to show what it can really do. Oh and large cahunas too

Campbell

[flip flop]

Cheers guys for the informative views, was hoping for a well balanced response and not to get too shot down for being a primadonna.

Am really keen to push the car further and test its limits and my skills (altho much more likely my skills wont be anywhere near its limits) just had that nagging doubt from a financial point of view that I might be missing a trick.

When I look at the people Ive met on the forum and the responses so far it does seem to be fun/driving first and financials are just a side effect of the fun. Think theres a lesson in that itself.

Guess all I can really ask for now is that if you see a black orange and white exige in front of you on kh be gentle the first couple of times as i'll have my l plates and hopefully a big grin on.

cheers

[campbell]

That's the spirit!

Tut, McKean and Robin are some top of my head extreme examples of people who drive their cars rather than wash them, and I think all would admit that the fun they have had more than outweighs any financial penalty.

But we all respect each others priorities here - usually! - and the track behaviour of this crowd is exemplary, IMHO. Provided you get on an SIDC day, AMP3 day or other SE-oriented event, your first venture to KH will be a blast.

Of course you also have the option to go up there for one of their own driver experience days, in your car or theirs, and get some early tuition under your belt. But you would be in good hands with the usual SE track crowd, I reckon, and it's way cheaper

[Corranga]

I'm currently on the fence...

I've never been much of a polisher / garage queen, but then i've never had a car worth of it.

Prior to the Elise, I was (am?) a classic mini man, and therefore have pretty much always had a rusty little car in my life. My mini was usually clean and polished (mainly to try to restrict the rusty) but was also used for a lot of road runs and was my daily runner.

Nowadays my daily commute is shared between my Elise and my girlfriends VX220, but following a bit of misfortue last year, my Elise became the garage queen type mainly due to the huge amount of money (for me), time, sweat and effort I put into getting it the way it is.

If you're unfamiliar, see here:
http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/vie ... te#p303249

I've never had a proper, mint condition car, not a car that grabs so much attention in my life and I love (almost) every minute of it!

and this is where the problem is.

I haven't tracked the car since it became green, partially due to lack of confidence following previous events, partially due to it looking great now.

but...

It's been to London and back. It visited Walshy when it was there.
It's been back down to the midlands.
I've only driven silly Vauxhall VXRs on track this year.
I do really miss track days.

I haven't booked AMP3 yet due to a mixture of fear / anniversary / more fear / possibly gravel rash...

<flamesuit>
I'd like to add that Campbell's comments on in the hands of the SE crowd vs. Knockhill tuition isn't so clear cut in my eyes. Everyone here is great, the banter is great, the advise is great, and many have given me a pax etc BUT trying to get someone to PAX with you when they've paid for track time isn't the easiest.
On the last track day Erica did, I tried to get someone to pax with her to give her advise etc as she was pretty apprehensive, especially with the speed of some of the other cars, and some others being quite intimidating to a beginner, but everyone was simply too caught up enjoying their own day, or too involved with the SE regulars to take the time out.
</flamesuit>

Chris

[mwmackenzie]

If you stay on the black stuff on track you'll not get nearly as many chips as you will on a road run.. My freshly painted car is now pepperd in chips after TT, as much as I like to keep my car shiney it's there to be used as it should be so I'm not letting it's current state get to me, front end respray and armourfend next year maybe hahahaha. I've never been a fan of armourfend as it cost so much, discolours through time and gets to looking tatty round the edges with polish and general crap but that said one road run has all but ruined my new paint so when I can afford it it'll be getting fitted after the paint gets sorted out.

[Shug]

I
<flamesuit>
I'd like to add that Campbell's comments on in the hands of the SE crowd vs. Knockhill tuition isn't so clear cut in my eyes. Everyone here is great, the banter is great, the advise is great, and many have given me a pax etc BUT trying to get someone to PAX with you when they've paid for track time isn't the easiest.
On the last track day Erica did, I tried to get someone to pax with her to give her advise etc as she was pretty apprehensive, especially with the speed of some of the other cars, and some others being quite intimidating to a beginner, but everyone was simply too caught up enjoying their own day, or too involved with the SE regulars to take the time out.
</flamesuit>

Chris, that's the first time I've ever heard anything like that said, so I'm not going to flame you, but I question how you've gone about getting help on the day. If you are keen to get regulars in the pax seat, post up before the day, there are usually guys there that are coming along for a chat, but not going on track. To criticise that nobody's prepared to give up their paid time without warning is a bit rich.

That said, some TDs can be a bit pacey - I'd always advise if you're not confident in the car to get some individual experience of the track at something like a Hyperformance session (or whatever they call it now) before going on a 2 hour trackday with a lot of regulars. KH is an undulating and challenging track which gets busy as it's a short lap. To be learning the track surrounded by 20 odd quick guys isn't the best choice you could make, independent of how faultless the etiquette is. Even choosing something like an SIDC that's longer, therefore gets less busy, is a good choice to make for a beginner.

[campbell]

<flamesuit>
I'd like to add that Campbell's comments on in the hands of the SE crowd vs. Knockhill tuition isn't so clear cut in my eyes. Everyone here is great, the banter is great, the advise is great, and many have given me a pax etc BUT trying to get someone to PAX with you when they've paid for track time isn't the easiest.
On the last track day Erica did, I tried to get someone to pax with her to give her advise etc as she was pretty apprehensive, especially with the speed of some of the other cars, and some others being quite intimidating to a beginner, but everyone was simply too caught up enjoying their own day, or too involved with the SE regulars to take the time out.
</flamesuit>

Chris

No need for flamesuit, Chris, it's a valid experience you are playing back. I just happen to have had different experiences, never felt wanting when I've needed someone to pax with me or indeed a newbie I've introduced (eg bruv in law, IIRC Robin sat in with him a few years ago). Perhaps you and Erica were just unlucky? A good time to get an experienced pax is during the warmup sessions, where pace is lower and really an experienced track driver doesn't need to go out then at all so could sacrifice their warmup to assist (I thought about doing this to help Alistair's missus at the TT event but in the end I was able to help her with sighting laps AND get my own car out on a warmup too!)

So, I'm sorry to hear of your particular experience and, whilst I am no track expert, I know my way around KH and still have the key points in my head from previous formal instruction there, so would be happy for you or Erica to seek me out if I'm there the next time.

Also you could consider seeking out a commitment in advance from your choice of Tame Track Whores on here, to give you both some time at a forthcoming event. For ref, that's what I've done for my brother and my uncle in the past and it seems to have done the trick.

The other thing is to get in quick with the KH instructor who is usually on-hand at TT or SIDC events, they are clearly a strong option and have no axe to grind re: driving their own cars.

Hope that gives you some inspiration

Campbell

[GregR]

What he said.

When I was a newb I remember posting on a KH thread that I'd be up, and looking for pax laps etc to put faces to names. I did that, and had a few laps out with the boys and that showed me the basics of how much fun you can have on track, and gave a little indication of where to go fast and how. Then, the boys would offer their assistance sitting in the pax seat and then you get hints and tips and enjoy the experience all the more. I'd say you can actually learn a lot more sitting in the pax seat than having someone sit in with you - e.g. the line into the chicane.

One thing I should say is that times have changed a lot in the last five years, and the number of modded and faster cars out there is significantly higher than it would have been back then - but it was still pretty intimidating - particularly when cutting teeth on a SIDC trackday! What I'd suggest is either the Hyperforance day, or whatever they call the novice days .. or book on to a four hour session. With the longer sessions people get all the testosterone out within the first housr then there's a natural on-track lull whilst peopple grab coffees, blether and let cars cool down. Then you can get out there and enjoy the track unhindered for a good few laps.

To the OP - if you bought it to look good - no problem. If you want to really enjoy it, get out on track - the safest place to enjoy finding th elimits of both you and the car. Watch out though .. its addictive

[Lazydonkey]

Yeah the KH 1 hour session is a brilliant starter for 10.

it then means when you rock up for your first trackday you have a vague idea and you wont feel nearly as nervous.

the comments about longer sessions are spot on too - on the 4 hour tut towers day it was lovely and quiet after the first hour.