Project V6 Elise

[Woodsport]

Post #1 updated

[Kev]

Great stuff Paul!!

Not much room to spare I see

[campbell]

Whether we like it or not, a large proportion of Elises ship with a K series engine and that's that.

Except in cases of terminal failure, or where the owner has considerable funds sloshing about to instruct a conversion to Honda or VAG or occasionally Duratec, we are stuck with the wee feckers.

But at 92k miles and one preventive head & gasket change later, I have no complaints about mine. We have shared many adventures together and I hope we can share a few more before I run out of talent or obliging friends to help me keep her on the road

Great build thread, though, all the same.

Campbell
(KIK - Keep It K - Faction!)

[campbell]

Out of interest, have you thought of access for maintenance? I am sure you have, but even the K series causes some fun for things like cambelt or thermostat changes

[Woodsport]

Yes maintenance is very important, we look at that on all of our builds, the problem is that on some projects like this one the engine has to sit where it has to sit, so we don't always get a say on how easy it is to access stuff.

We are going to make the rear panel removable for access to the rear bank spark plugs, oil filter and thermostat is easy to access, cambelt is looking doable in situ but would be ten times easier with the rear clam off. I think on a car like this pretty much everything has a certain level of difficulty, just one of those things you have to take on the chin i guess.

[robin]

I think that rear clam off for a cambelt change is a fair price to pay, as it happens - once every 50K (or, knowing Toyota, 100K) who cares?

The original Elise had the boot panel removable anyway; it just fell by the wayside with the newer (heavier) clams.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. On the subject of subframe modifications, I don't think there are issues with just cutting it away like that and then beefing it up again. Some of the Honda conversions fit an additional bracing bracket across the bottom of the subframe that connects to the flats just underneath the lower rear wishbone mounts. The difference here is that they use this to connect the torque mount (central engine mount); in at least one case the end point mountings for this brace bar seem to have failed (perhaps due to the loads placed on the bar's mounting points from the centrally mounted torque mount) and allowed the bar to become a lever to wrench apart the subframe. So if you're just going to add more metal in a slightly different place to replace the metal you removed, no problems, but if you plan to mount anything to it, then you need to think about the moments and stresses on the fasteners (or welds) and on the original subframe seams and metal work. If you do decide to weld the extra metal on, you might want to consider getting the whole subframe re-galvanized once you're done - would add a nice touch and certainly protect the new metal from corrosion. What do you think?

[woody]

I think that rear clam off for a cambelt change is a fair price to pay, as it happens - once every 50K (or, knowing Toyota, 100K) who cares?

The original Elise had the boot panel removable anyway; it just fell by the wayside with the newer (heavier) clams.

Cheers,
Robin

P.S. On the subject of subframe modifications, I don't think there are issues with just cutting it away like that and then beefing it up again. Some of the Honda conversions fit an additional bracing bracket across the bottom of the subframe that connects to the flats just underneath the lower rear wishbone mounts. The difference here is that they use this to connect the torque mount (central engine mount); in at least one case the end point mountings for this brace bar seem to have failed (perhaps due to the loads placed on the bar's mounting points from the centrally mounted torque mount) and allowed the bar to become a lever to wrench apart the subframe. So if you're just going to add more metal in a slightly different place to replace the metal you removed, no problems, but if you plan to mount anything to it, then you need to think about the moments and stresses on the fasteners (or welds) and on the original subframe seams and metal work. If you do decide to weld the extra metal on, you might want to consider getting the whole subframe re-galvanized once you're done - would add a nice touch and certainly protect the new metal from corrosion. What do you think?

Just been reading this:

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=302226

[robin]

Yes, exactly the thing I was referring to. I just brought it up because people have a habit of globbing together all these issues - so they see subframe mods, remember the cracked subframe thread with the dodgy bit of steel hanging off a cracked subframe and then decide ALL subframe modifications are trouble. A lot of the Honda conversions also nibble away at the subframe for clearance and I don't think I've heard of this nibbling causing any issues at all.

Cheers,
Robin

[OlberJ]

Just noticed you are using a celica box. ST182?

That FD is definitely nicer to use on the roads up here.

[Woodsport]

Yep St182 Olie, but for gearchange reasons more than anything else.

I will be giving the subframe reinforcing serious thought, thankyou chaps, i agree it needs bracing in key areas.

Post #1 updated

[CubanGav]

I see seloc is being true to form.

[OlberJ]

Yep St182 Olie, but for gearchange reasons more than anything else.

Does the gear shifter work a la Mk1 or Mk3 on the Elise?

[Woodsport]

I see seloc is being true to form.

You aren't kidding mate! I've never encountered a forum as harsh as that and i've only just started the build. I think the project must be treading on a few toes to produce such a reaction unless this is just the way Seloc is? The attitude over there beggars belief.

Does the gear shifter work a la Mk1 or Mk3 on the Elise?

Olie at the stick end it works exactly like a Mk3.

[hiscot]

What's the upgrade path like on the 1MZ? One assumes an understressed engine as standard - don't really know much about it?

As graeme said there is the TRD supercharger, but they are no longer available to buy new, but they do come up on ebay occasionally but hold very good money. If I remember correctly, the 1MZ is good for about 300bhp before you should look at changing the internals, the biggest problem is the piston ring lands. There's a few folk about with 300bhp + with standard internals in the mr2. Paul was looking in to the Scion supercharger, which you can pick up cheaply on ebay in the states, for the mr2 v6 conversions, but has yet to develop it because of his workload. I don't think there is much off the shelf tuning parts for the 1MZ, like cams etc but I haven't really looked to it.

Kev, i'd be very interested to put this up against the Mk3 and see how it compares

I'm sure we could organise something

I have a v6 tvs charger with inbuilt charge cooling kicking around and thats very compact and low designed to fit between the head banks No idea if one could be fabricated to fit but the trd one looks to add a fair bit of height something you may not have ?
Its nice to see something different , I enjoyed reading about the vx with the old rover v8 and why it was done
good luck with yours

[Kev]

I see seloc is being true to form.

You aren't kidding mate! I've never encountered a forum as harsh as that and i've only just started the build. I think the project must be treading on a few toes to produce such a reaction unless this is just the way Seloc is? The attitude over there beggars belief.

Yeah that's just the seloc way, especially with engine conversions. I did warn you that they are some folk on seloc that will get over excited If you ever have the time, search back on seloc about engine conversions, its quite good for a laugh.