Tottenham

[Sanjøy]

Interesting views being aired, anyone actually lived in London in the last 10 years? No go places for white people? Seriously ? No white people in site ? They are called communities. They make London the awesome city it is.
I cannot condone any of the antics below but living in Scotland we have no idea what is happening in their communities and ghettos. I would seriously consider changing countries if I could not trust Lothian & Borders finest who have never stopped me "randomly". I my 7 or so years in London, 4 of them were as a Lotus driver, I stopped counting how many times I was pulled after 10, none were for any driving incidents, all were random checks. This was not in black or asian communities or ghettos, most of the time it was in the square mile, Fulham or Chelsea. Ended up carrying my passport full time to save time.

We are all outraged about the New International paying off the Met and that it could actually have affected out life's due to the political influences, we are terribly upset and shuffle our broadsheets and talk about it at dinner parties. Could you imagine if Met corruption was not at Board room level to you but on your local street? I couldn't and would imagine I would be a lot more militant about it and talk with my feet to another country as I mentioned, but what if I could not afford to? What would I do? What would all my mates do? What if one of my mates committed a crime that we talk about on here? What if rather than a court appearance for 101mph he got a shoeing of his life from 5 officers? What would we do? We know the difference between right and wrong but what do you do when you are incensed and the governing authority has been held up post Stephen Lawrence and now post NI to be rotten to the core.
Again, I certainly do not condone what is happening in London but I and I would wager nobody on this forum can preach about shooting, tear gassing etc when we have no idea of the full extent that led up to this boiling over with the shooting over a criminal.

Lets not talk about Katrina looters.

2p

S

[clareduncan]

I'm loving that this has all kicked off ten minutes away from my new home!! Think ky home insurance may have just trebled! And the real horror is that many if those people who bothered to insure themselves against fire and theft will find one of those cracking clauses that says except in the case of riots and will be left with nothing. Excellent stuff!!

[j2 lot]

And the real horror is that many if those people who bothered to insure themselves against fire and theft will find one of those cracking clauses that says except in the case of riots and will be left with nothing.

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it on the news - very few policies cover rioting or war- some people could be left with nothing but the clothes they stand in.

[ikarl]

Again, I certainly do not condone what is happening in London but I and I would wager nobody on this forum can preach about shooting, tear gassing etc when we have no idea of the full extent that led up to this boiling over with the shooting over a criminal.

Whilst I agree with your post, I do feel that anyone has a right to post their personal comments (if only to create a varied discussion), especially for something that, although 500 miles away, is still pretty close to home.
What I would say is that I don't think, and I haven't taken it from any ones post prior, that anyone is preaching. Just condoning the looting/rioting.

I have my own personal opinion on rioting and regardless of the reason for the 'riot' (which is just an excuse for some to go on the 'rob') I believe it should be handled in a more European way...

J2 Lot - Sad times that I think should be met with the heaviest Police response to nip it in the bud and take every last rioter off the street by whatever means possible.

[clareduncan]

I wholeheartedly agree that many on here have no real comprehension what it is to be discriminated against or to not know where your next meal is coming from. And I'm quite sure that if I hadn't have been as lucky as I have been in life and found myself in very different circumstances that I too would br chronically bitter and resent the authorities. What I fail to see is how the solution to such a situation is to burn and steal from your own community. It might make a point but unfortunately it will just lead to the white middle classes reaffirming their discriminating nature and to their communities being even more down trodden while the good honest folk try to get back on their feet following the damage. At least assaulting a police officer is slightly logical, but this is so backward to the cause that it can't be perceived as anything other than completely mindless!

[Rich H]

Rioting is never a solution to anything. There can never be a justified riot.

Peaceful protest in the face of adversity is the way to make your point, sadly that has been rendered impossible by the minority of hooligans hell bent on fighting and destruction.

Riot Police should be feared, a riot Police response is a last resort, however, it should also be the final resort required.

The innocent have nothing to fear, they don't go to riots and throw things.

[graeme]

Complete farce. Obviously the police need more practice at kettling students before they next deal with any real criminals.

[Sanjøy]

The innocent have nothing to fear, they don't go to riots and throw things.

Unfortunately post G20 when the photographer was heavily handled by the Police you could no longer send your kids on a London based protest to teach them to stand up for their rights.

...What I fail to see is how the solution to such a situation is to burn and steal from your own community.!

Yup they are not achieving anything and with no order forming amongst them the anarchists/thieves/scum are winning an trivialising the objective.

Is there not a report that highlights rioting / crime increases with the ambient temperature ?

[Rich H]

Unfortunately post G20 when the photographer was heavily handled by the Police you could no longer send your kids on a London based protest to teach them to stand up for their rights.

Agreed.

Peaceful protest in the face of adversity is the way to make your point, sadly that has been rendered impossible by the minority of hooligans hell bent on fighting and destruction.

It is no longer possible to hold a protest without the lunatics hijacking it for their own ends.

It is lost on many that a peaceful protest sends a bigger more effective message than burnign down your own community.

[S111Y TT]

As you said

It is no longer possible to hold a protest without the lunatics hijacking it for their own ends.

It is lost on many that a peaceful protest sends a bigger more effective message than burnign down your own community.

This is the world we now live in though. The causes of which are so many and so wide spread, how can you possibly fix such a large scale problem.

Police are not respected, or even feared. Property is there to be destroyed, people are there to be hurt. There is no respect for anyone or anything. All some people want to do is beat the hell out of each other and just go crazy.

It would usually be said that minority ruin it for majority, however the minority is ever growing and has been for years now. You see the differences in schools across the UK. I hear from my old teachers who have now left the school about how badly the Academy is now doing due to the attitude of not only the pupils but the parents. They gave up hope and couldn't handle teaching in that environment.

An event (possibly an injustice) took place. Some try to protest in the effective manner. The minority (ever growing) turn up and destroy the point of the protest with their mindless rioting. The communities name takes a knock for the worst, the above problems worsen and next time a protest takes place an even larger minority are there to knock it to it's knees once again.

In my opinion the problem is with those wishing to fight, hurt and damage. Very rarely are these the level headed sensible ones who have randomly snapped. More than likely they will have behaved this way throughout their life. I would say it is too late to start with the problem people we already have now. Instead, tackle the problem in it's early days.
Set new standards in schools and prisons showing far less leniency to those who brake the rules and laws. Harsher prisons and stronger penalties to those who break the law will act as a great deterrent. More severe punishments throughout school life will help to set a new standard of morals amongst the young community.

Many people no longer realise what is right and wrong, school can help this. Those who don't and will not care you cannot teach, however heftier sentences for crimes may deter them from the actions that they may possibly have taken.

My 2p from someone too young to have witnessed the "good old days."

[tut]

Sanjoy, there are undoubtably as many scum whites as there are scum blacks, but the bottom line is the colour does not matter, they are still scum.

That is exactly what this lot were, I have just had Verian preaching to me that it is a result of them coming from deprived backgrounds, no jobs etc, which they may well be, but that has nothing to do with the mindless destruction and setting fire to buildings and vehicles, looting, and terrorising shop owners who were their own neighbours. However there were probably many that were imported from elsewhere as soon as they heard that there was going to be a family demonstration.

They even showed a spark of intelligence, and worked out that as all the police were in that area, then if they went a few blocks away, they would be able to loot and destroy with impunity.

tut

[Sanjøy]

Mate in the Met passed me this blog.

http://wintsays.wordpress.com/2011/08/0 ... -disorder/

[Kelvin]

Tut, you're not suggesting that if you are a law-abiding citizen you won't get shot in the head by a policeman are you?

I give you Jean Charles de Menezes.

[j2 lot]

Mate in the Met passed me this blog.

http://wintsays.wordpress.com/2011/08/0 ... -disorder/

Very sobering and gives just a small insight of what the Police and residents are having to deal with and face.

[Fluoxetine]

Kicking off in Hackney - Media blackout again, but Paul Lewis of the Guardian is tweeting away... http://twitter.com/#!/PaulLewis

At the moment, I'm more concerned about my friends who live in these areas - Little flashpoints are appearing all over the place. Many shops in Kilburn (10 minute walk from me) shut early, and it's created a real atmosphere of tension / fear that something's going to go down...Lots of sirens and a few small incidents already.

(I'm lucky - Sat on a train just outside of Aberdeen - Just flew up from London for work earlier this evening).