Any planning experts? Specifically outbuildings.

[kerryxeg]

Sounds like you got some good advice to go on, which is probably much more accurate than mine, but just a couple of issues to consider if relevant:

The last time I checked the Aberdeenshire guidelines, you could do a total of up to 30m2 of outbuildings up to 2.5m high without permission, but there were limitations on use - no sleeping accomodation or fires/stoves. If you have a detached garage for example I understood that this would already contribute to the 30m2 total - but I'm not sure if this applies elsewhere or is still the current guidance. I've done quite a few elevated decks (2nd storey) and have always had them covered by planning, it makes sense to do so.

For his own good and the future value of the property it would make sense to have the building constructed under the regulations If it is not built under regulations there is a risk it may not be classified as living accomodation - maybe others can confirm. I'm just thinking of other examples such as unapproved conversions or floor area which does not meeting height regs, these are typically downgraded on a valuation survey.

[Stevoraith]

Kenny, could you point me in the direction of where that excerpt came from please? It looks like it could be useful.

I think my next course of action will be to approach him again and see if we can come to a mutually agreeable decision. If not I will be open with him and tell him I am contacting the planning dept.

I don't want to be sneaky about it, I'd rather be open and honest, but at the same time I don't want to let it slide just for the sake of preserving neighbour relations.

Thanks for that Kerry, if it were me building what he is building, I would be contacting planning and making sure I had done everything by the book for the exact reasons you mention.
In his case he is more than happy to take the word of friends who are in the building trade- the same friends who are doing the work. From what I have managed to find on-line it seems that the advice he has recieved about his building is sound- it will comply with the guidlines you posted for example. I don't think he has even considered planning for the decking though.

Oh, and the whole point of this building is to house a pool table- a lot of expense and time and effort for a three-bedroom semi if you ask me

[kenny]

It's from here which I have just realised is for non-domestic, though it still refers to 'dwellinghouses'.

Can't find the domestic guidlines just this consultation paper recommending changes that he might be trying to use http://scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/327323/0105671.pdf

Not sure if this is in place yet.

[kenny]

Also, I don't deal with planning but work with the people that do.

Generally I would have gone with a rule of thumb that if it is external and requires a building warrant (which this does) then it also requires planning. I have never heard of something like this not requiring planning permission unless the regs have changed very recently.

[max1966]

The guidelines are just that.

There are too many variables for them to cover all the bases, he should have sought Planning Permission or confirmation that it wasn't required. Advice even professional means nothing without confirmation from the Local Authority, if he's nothing to hide why wouldn't he have approached Planning..........for the sake of £80 (AFAIK) from the Fife Council website.

Some drawings would need to be produced for the Building Warrant (assuming he's getting one), submitting them to Planning is hardly difficult.

I think you are doing the right thing in again highlighting the 'professional opinion' that PP is req., if he won't take that on board you have no choice but to report it.

[Stevoraith]

Thanks again guys.

I drove past him last night as he was walking his dog- I waved and he looked straight at me and ignored me. So basically he has already fallen out with me for raising my opinion. Daft thing to do as now I don't really care if I piss him off more......

I 'phoned the planning office this morning to confirm what the way forward was and I basically have two options.

1- Wait until he starts work and then call an enforcement officer and raise an objection.
2- Apply (either myself, or him) to the council to see if planning permission is required. This will cost £80.

I don't really care which way it's done but option one has the potential to cost him lots of money if he has to change plans mid-build.
I'll give him the options and let him choose. I've a feeling he'll go for option one as he seems to be convinced there is nothing wrong with what he wants to do.

Let the games commence.....

[campbell]

He is nuts to continue without an official ruling. The only reason you don't ask permission for something (anything!) when principle or law suggest you should, is if you are afraid of being told "no". The sad fact for your neighbour, in this instance, that if the answer was always going to be an initial "no" then it is going to cost a lot more than a correctly planned and built structure will in the first place.

<sigh>

You are taking the right attitude and seem to be staying positive, so keep it like that and all will be well.

It's not like you are setting out to make his life difficult - you're just doing what he would do when faced with the prospect of a structure that is going to impede his light and seriously overlook his garden!

[kerryxeg]

Looking at what he's built already, I think the planners would be interested to have a look anyway.

If he's taken advice from builders he may feel very confident that he is within the regs, from my experience some builders are very used to bending the guidelines to suit. You never know he may thank you in the long run. Neighbourly disputes are to be avoided if possible, so I'd keep waving FWIW

[campbell]

And in our experience, builders can be very knowledgeable on regs but ultimately it's the architects or the planning dept (final decision-maker after all) who know them the best.

Why dick around guessing with so much at stake.

A PS for your neighbour also, Steve...build a relationship with planning dept and their officers can be very compliant during or after completion on "grey areas". Go about it adversarially (sp?!) or with the view that "the rules don't apply to me", and these guys just love picking holes and ultimately can shut down an otherwise "nearly right" project. We have good experience of the former approach. Your neighbour might just thank you for it...eventually!

[BiggestNizzy]

Last time my parents built an extension there planning lapsed and he never applied for a completion certificate.

When he had to so he could sell the house the planning guy came picked a few holes in and then said "well if it hasn't fallen down in the 5 years it's up I suppose it will be ok.

Planning can be ok sometimes

[kenny]

Any update or are you now integral to his foundations?

[Stevoraith]

Funny you should bump this as it's all kicked off again in the last couple of weeks.

It all went quiet for a while and no progress was made on the build, he even started speaking to me.

I naively thought he was maybe seeking planning before going any further......

In the last fortnight he's put the roof on which makes the structure even higher.

Of course, since he's doing it all using favours and homers it was done in the evenings. After one evening of hammering and sawing until 9.45pm I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't say anything.

When he was at it again the following evening I went out around 8pm and politely asked how long he'd be.
"How!?" was his answer.
I explained it was a bit late to be making so much noise, especially since there are kids all around in the street.
He was adamant he could make as much noise as he wanted until 10pm, and anyway, his bairn was neither up nor down.

When I said that may be the case but it wasn't very considerate to his neighbours he called me a prick.

So needless to say, planning enforcement complaint has been submitted (although I haven't even had an acknowledgement from the council yet).

I'll try and get some updated pictures up later.

[j2 lot]

If he continues with late night building and takes that attitude with you I would be straight on to the Council.
They will probably have an enforcement officer or out of hours team on duty who will pay a visit and can put a prohibition order on if he doesn't comply with request to 'keep it down'.

[vx220]

Environmental noise abatement officer is who you need next to pay a visit!!

[scottishselise]

When he was at it again the following evening I went out around 8pm and politely asked how long he'd be.
"How!?" was his answer.

You should of replied, "how what?", that would confuse him!
Or, "perhaps you meant, 'why'?".

Best of luck

/pedant.