Why don't I like Honda K20's

[robin]

Guys,

This is a discussion that can never end so please don't start it. As you've found elsewhere you know where it ends. You're each welcome to post your own opinions and facts. If you really know somebody has got their facts wrong feel free to post what you believe to be true instead. If you just want to belittle one another then go and do that somewhere else.

Before you (predictably) reply with "it wasn't me" or "I didn't start it", I don't care.

Robin

[Scuffers]

that kind of depends what you want?

seems to me that you seem to have no problem with a multi-page thread filled with more inaccuracies and rhetoric than you can shake a stick at, but you get all huffy when somebody dares to question the validity and motivation of it?

I have to ask, what exactly was the point in allowing this thread in the first place? it;s not like anybody is going to learn anything remotely useful or accurate, so what was the point?

How would a thread entitled 'why I don't like the Rover K series' have gone down?

Look, we all know the score, your not a stupid person, and I would appreciate it if you did not treat others as if they are.

[robin]

Hi Simon (S),

Threads are allowed.

You are allowed to post whatever you want so long as it's not offensive, abusive to other members or gets us into legal difficulties, no matter how misguided or irrelevant others might judge it to be.

Feel free to start a thread on why you don't like the Rover K if you like. I'm sure it will be filled with useful information for those using that engine.

As to treating people as stupid, you are assuming that everybody who reads this thread will take everything in it as gospel. I tend to assume people have enough sense to make up their own minds. If you really think something important is wrong, post the facts as you see them as this will be helpful to people reading this thread, or if you cannot be bothered, don't. You may not simply say "this is all bollocks". That's lazy and rude.

I have no knowledge at this level on either engine and am only here to keep the peace.

As you are not stupid you will by now understand what is "allowed" and what is not. Please please please don't make me post on this thread again. That's not to say you shouldn't but if you do so you should abide by the rules that have been explained in detail. If you are in any doubt at all as to whether what you're about to post is likely to be an issue feel free to send it to the moderators for prior approval. I'm sure you won't need to do that, but the offer is there for any member if it helps.

Best wishes,

Robin

[tut]

Simon. neither of you are being treated unequally, you have known me for years, so no way that I would be biased against you. I also have two of your conversions with N1 and N3. Read back to the beginning of the thread and you will see that Simon E was warned for his postings and attitude, and after that he stuck to the engineering side and his own views on the comparison between the K and the K20, most of it outside my realm of knowledge, but it then went down a lot better.

I do not like to see the Honda slagged, my two have served me magnificently, and the weight of N3 at 764kgs on Craig's scales can not not refuted by Simon, but I am not going to fight about it.

I do not know what the answer is, you are both chalk and cheese and will never get along as you have found out over the years, the shame is that you both have vast knowledge on your subjects which we all love to read about and learn from, I just do not see how the two can come together.

Robin is one of the most reasonable and understanding guys you will ever meet, and about the only one that I have met that does not seem to have prejudices, so what ever he says will be fair and considerate of what is posted. This is not SELOC and no way will the Mods allow it to to descend into some of the threads that we have seen on there.

tut

[mikeyb13]

Must say ive learned more about my engine from this thread than I have from many others. Im only just discovering the ins and outs of my car. Heated debate Yes

Once i see a K Series engined Elise stuff Tut round Knockhill I might reconsider my pro Honda stance

In the interests of fairness though he does seem to break it a lot.

[mckeann]

Once i see a K Series engined Elise stuff Tut round Knockhill I might reconsider my pro Honda stance

I've sold mine now

[r10crw]

Once i see a K Series engined Elise stuff Tut round Knockhill I might reconsider my pro Honda stance

I've sold mine now

Interesting thread on seloc just now,
http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=324580

The link to the paper is pretty cool

[ABZ-Elise]

I have been enjoying the technical side of this thread but at the end of the day the claims that are being made for the k-series are useless without proof. By proof I mean people who have one of these engines (people well know in the Lotus community preferably) coming on here and saying they've done X amount of trackdays/races and X amount of road miles and it hasn't missed a beat after kicking the crap out of it. Once I see this I will start to believe that what has been stated for the k-series is possible.

I do like the k-series engine and I've never had any real problems with it in standard form. I do believe it is the best fit for an Elise and I did look into building a decent 200bhp engine but I was put off by the costs and hassles involved + plus the constant worry that it might blow up and I'd have to start again.

I am in the process of putting a Honda engine in my Elise now, which will be done cheaper than what I could build a decent k-series for. So far it has only cost me about £1000 to get the engine in (including the cost of the engine) but that is because I bought a complete ctr, stripped the bits I needed from it and sold off the rest. I know I still have a lot of expensive bits to buy for it but the the overall cost won't be more than £5000. And before anyone says I need to factor in my time into the overall cost...no I don't. Its a hobby that I enjoy doing.

Kev.

[KingK_series]

Simon. neither of you are being treated unequally, you have known me for years, so no way that I would be biased against you. I also have two of your conversions with N1 and N3. Read back to the beginning of the thread and you will see that Simon E was warned for his postings and attitude, and after that he stuck to the engineering side and his own views on the comparison between the K and the K20, most of it outside my realm of knowledge, but it then went down a lot better.

I do not like to see the Honda slagged, my two have served me magnificently, and the weight of N3 at 764kgs on Craig's scales can not not refuted by Simon, but I am not going to fight about it.


tut

This is my totally standard S1, bar a baffled SS backbox, I will weigh that and get comp to OE. With 15L fuel.



what is N3? early? late? has a full SS straight through exhaust? brakes? fuel?

[KingK_series]

Must say ive learned more about my engine from this thread than I have from many others. Im only just discovering the ins and outs of my car. Heated debate Yes

Once i see a K Series engined Elise stuff Tut round Knockhill I might reconsider my pro Honda stance

In the interests of fairness though he does seem to break it a lot.

At this moment there is a possibility one of my engines, maybe two will be going to Scotland next year, watch this space.

[KingK_series]

I have been enjoying the technical side of this thread but at the end of the day the claims that are being made for the k-series are useless without proof. By proof I mean people who have one of these engines (people well know in the Lotus community preferably) coming on here and saying they've done X amount of trackdays/races and X amount of road miles and it hasn't missed a beat after kicking the crap out of it. Once I see this I will start to believe that what has been stated for the k-series is possible.

I do like the k-series engine and I've never had any real problems with it in standard form. I do believe it is the best fit for an Elise and I did look into building a decent 200bhp engine but I was put off by the costs and hassles involved + plus the constant worry that it might blow up and I'd have to start again.

I am in the process of putting a Honda engine in my Elise now, which will be done cheaper than what I could build a decent k-series for. So far it has only cost me about £1000 to get the engine in (including the cost of the engine) but that is because I bought a complete ctr, stripped the bits I needed from it and sold off the rest. I know I still have a lot of expensive bits to buy for it but the the overall cost won't be more than £5000. And before anyone says I need to factor in my time into the overall cost...no I don't. Its a hobby that I enjoy doing.

Kev.

OK this is a really important point;-

horsepower goes not break the Rover K.

The whole idea that there is some sort of 200bhp ceiling is nonsense.

The only ceiling is about 170/180bhp if you are going to keep the engine entirely stock bar cams , ecu. and exhaust. Other than that it will respond like any other modern engine up to 2L capacity. The proviso is that modifications are done well, with understanding and to at least stock tolerances, and that has been the problem - most of the tuners working with the engine have not understood it, have thrown aftermarket parts way outside OE tolerance at it, or just been plain careless.......... I see a new thread coming.

[tut]

Simon, early 97, five spoke wheels, Nitrons, Geary's Exhaust, steel front disks, MMC rears, half tank of fuel, S/C Honda JDM.

tut

[KingK_series]

Simon, early 97, five spoke wheels, Nitrons, Geary's Exhaust, steel front disks, MMC rears, half tank of fuel, S/C Honda JDM.

tut

interesting........ ,ore the less the same is mine, bar steel discs, and honda SC.

mine has heavy OE exhaust manifold which probably offsets some of the steel vs MMC brake weight difference?

so maybe the honda sc adds 48 odd KG over a stock early elise bar, ss backbox,

sounds about right to me, the OE backbox is 10kg heavier than the SS one...

[KingK_series]

- The Honda water pump



a really poor pressed steel affair that runs at crank speed, and will cavitate like mad at any speed but get worse and worse above 4000rpm

BTCC Hondas use a decent competition pump, underdriven and efficient to the 8500 BTCC rev limit.

[foz01]