Independence

[Lazydonkey]

Lets have the debate and get some reasoned facts on the table - I doubt this will happen and the general press will not let this happen (its too important and boring to be good for sales).

The date the SNP have chosen suggests that there will be a lot of mel gibson lookalikes shouting "freedom" and precious little in the way of facts.

[woody]

If you were say an American Corp. Looking to sink $tens of millions into a subsidiary to look after a product line with a 40 year life span, you'd think they'd seriously look twice at the plan if the the country it's in is about to rip up almost the entire state?

I think we'd be fcuk. And to leave the UK for deeper EU integration is somewhat ironic surely?

On the back of it's recent restructure, the Daily Record will also be taking a much less anti-SNP line. That may have some bearing or not on the outcome.

[kenny]

The PH post is very eloquently written, however he completely missed the energy industry and specifically theoil industry which is worth billions in tax revenue which would go some way to balancing the books.
As a note of interest there is a similar sized country to Scotland which has the highest standard of living in the world, one of the most stable currency and is one of the wealthiest with cash to burn. Norway.

Norways oil industry is fully state owned and controlled so much more money goes back into their economy than would ever happen for Scotland.
Norway is entirely energy self sufficient, 98-99% of their electricity comes from hydro electric, almost all the oil and gas is exported. The have also had the benefit of decades worth of that in the bank, we would be starting out with a massive debt still to pay off and no where near the same income as Norway.

It's all very well lauding Norway as an example of a prospering small country but we are absolutely not comparable.

[campbell]

Newsnight this evening was entertaining, if a little informative (!). Particularly the Newsnight Scotland segment - see iPlayer during Thurs for a re-run if you care.

The Daily Record guy was actually spot on...8 minutes of expert legal debate was tough enough on the grey matter...imagine 18 months of it while the legal eagles rack up cracking fee notes trying to work out whether Scotland is allowed to act upon a "Yes" vote or not.

You couldn't make it up.

[woody]

Newsnight this evening was entertaining, if a little informative (!). Particularly the Newsnight Scotland segment - see iPlayer during Thurs for a re-run if you care.

The Daily Record guy was actually spot on...8 minutes of expert legal debate was tough enough on the grey matter...imagine 18 months of it while the legal eagles rack up cracking fee notes trying to work out whether Scotland is allowed to act upon a "Yes" vote or not.

You couldn't make it up.

Who was the Record guy Campbell? It's not on iPlayer yet.

[Titanium S1 111S (gla)]

What Norway has that Scotland doesn't is a well educated and productive population.  The unfortunate truth is that we have a very large proportion of the population which is not contributing and never will.  For historical reasons Scotland has more than the rest of the UK & and an independent Scotland would have to provide for them as part of the cost of independence.  Add to that the costs of division and dealing with all the other problems and I think we would literally find-ourselves bankrupt.  I don't see a great enthusiasm for funding national debt for us so it might even be that we find ourselves unable to fund centralised expenditure - economic meltdown!

[tut]

Most of the members on the Forum are well educated and informed, hence this debate. If we were not sure of which way to vote, then we would put some thought into it, do some research, and listen to those who's job it is to know what separation would mean for Scotland.

However what percentage of the population would the above apply to?. How many would vote for it just because they do not like the English?

tut

[Lazydonkey]

The most common reason i heard on the radio the other day was "pride". We apparently need to be independent due to pride.

ffs

[kenny]

Donkey you were bang on with the date thing earlier, Salmond will unashamedly exploit the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn to push his parochial politics. Frankly it's embarrassing.

Also he is cynically trying to lower the voting age to 16 as he is well aware he will be able to stir the Braveheart 'freeeeddooooom' sentimentality in the youth vote.

[graeme]

Some money facts from Radio4's brilliant "More or Less" a few months ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 1/?t=1m47s

Link goes to the start of the relevant bit.

[Sanjøy]

Donkey you were bang on with the date thing earlier, Salmond will unashamedly exploit the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn to push his parochial politics. Frankly it's embarrassing.

Also he is cynically trying to lower the voting age to 16 as he is well aware he will be able to stir the Braveheart 'freeeeddooooom' sentimentality in the youth vote.

When I interviewed King Alex on 5 Live a few years back for the 10th aniv of the parliament was not allowed to ask him why he was not holding the vote then.

[woody]

However what percentage of the population would the above apply to?. How many would vote for it just because they do not like the English?

tut

Tut, I get the impression most people who appear anti-English aren't, but rather, are anti-Tory, who they view as foisted on them by the English.

[Mikie711]

This referendum has been delayed and delayed. Wasn't there one before back in the 70's. AS has to keep bringing it up as they said that there would be one, forms the corner stone of there manifesto. Weather it actually happens I guess time will tell and if it does it's unlikely to gain enough support. Some people will vote from the patriotic POV but most will be swayed by how the press report the issues, which is unlikely to be favorably.

Kenny, I get the impression you are not AS biggest supporter

I for one think he has been extremely good for Scotland, for once we have a PM that gives a sh!t rather than having do as he is told.

I don't think it's anti Tory more a case of anti Westminster. Until Labour got in we just ended up with a lot of opposition MP's as SNP weren't/aren't a viable alternative in a Westminster election as they will only ever contest seats North of the border and hence never win enough seats to be able to make an impact. It ends up manifesting itself as anti English sentiment where it's really and government.

[woody]

I don't think it's anti Tory more a case of anti Westminster.

Maybe more of an NE thing? From Ayrshire, the politics of the wee pretendy Parly seem just as distant as Westminster, with the added distraction of appearing like an amateur production. I can't think there's a great deal AS has done that affects the place, and get theimpression he'd struggle to find the place on a map if William's birth place were not in Kilmarnock.

[Mikie711]

It is different in ABZ, has it's own economic climate which can mask the sentiment in the rest of the country.