Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

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IanD
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by IanD » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:25 am

Jacobite wrote:the last couple of Nikon DSLR's I've bough have been from the local cash convertors ~they don't seem to get much call for them so much cheapness
Nikon D60 Body with DX 18-55mm and 55-200mm DX lens's £249.99 last August and the one near me currantly has a couple of older D70 bodys at £149.99 each
so its worth a look on line at Cash Convertor type shops
Interesting what you said, I'll maybe take a look now. I've not found these places very cheap for anything I looked at in the past, if anything they have over-priced stuff so i stopped looking. I've got a borrow of my sister Nikon D40 and wouldn't mind picking up something similar 2nd hand for the occasional photo or event then I wouldn't feel too bad if it wasn't used half the time.
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David Bryce
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by David Bryce » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:56 pm

GBOBM wrote:Strange there are so many Canon shooters out there.
It's not their fault, they just don't know any better :wink: :lol:

Although having said that, I am seriously considering replacing my Nikon D3s's with a couple of Fuji X-Pro1's and some primes.

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graeme
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Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by graeme » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Quite fancied an X pro 1 for walkabout, but couldn't justify another £1000 over the x100 for what is essentially a toy. Absolutely loving the results from the x100 though... Amazing high-iso and pin-sharp. Great f2 lens and relatively low megapixel APS-C combo.

Menus are a complete shambles though so try before you buy.. It might put you off for actual pro use.

Also battery life sucks, and takes 2.5 hours to charge. You'd need 3 or 4 batteries for a wedding.

Totally get your hand on one for a play though... Poor-man's Leica M9 :)
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Sanjøy
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by Sanjøy » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:48 am

To follow in from Shuggles I think it was David Bailey that said the best camera is the one you have on you.

I bought a 550d over the Nikon mainly for its video capabilities. 1080p and uniquely (at the time) 720p @ 60fps. I actively use the video option quite a bit as young Reuben is only 13 months and it makes for great slo mo clips. Coupled with a £70 50mm it has been awesome since he was born. Buying and learning to use the 50mm has probably been the biggest asset of the camera.

Thread drifting but any thoughts on the Sigma 50mm 1.4 ?
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graeme
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Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by graeme » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:53 am

I don't think the sigma is useful enough over the 1.8 you already have to splash out on. Remember, the extra bit of light will also reduce your already tiny depth of field meaning more arty bokeh on still shots but more missed focus on people and pets... A trade off only wedding photographers who shoot in dark churches at ISO 6400 with no flash are willing to make.

Keep the 50/1.8 and maybe get a 430EX and experiment with bounced flash indoors, fill-flash outdoors if you feel you need more light. I wouldn't use ISO above 800 on the 550d.
As for expanding your lens collection, maybe a canon 35/f2 or 28/1.8 would give you more options up close... with the crop sensor on the 550d your 50 is about 80mm which is great for portraits, but might mean missing moments indoors where you can't take a few steps back.

If you shoot movies a lot, avoid zooms with variable max-apertures. In fact avoiding them for stills too is a good idea IMO.


EDIT: removed bit where I said the Sigma 50mm f1.4 isn't that good. I was recalling trying the Sigma 50mm 2.8, but haven't tried the 1.4
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by GBOBM » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:55 am

:withstupid

Yeah, the sigma has mixed reviews from what I've heard. Apparently it's reasonably sharp in the center but tends to soften as it gets to the edge of the frame.

I once heard a saying from a wedding photographer who said "I used to use flash, but then I got good and realised I could get better shots without, then I got even better and went back to using flash" Flash can be terrible if you don't know how to use it and fire it straight at your subject, but makes a huge difference if you understand light sources and know how to use it properly.

I'm no wedding/portrait photographer so I stick to a couple of different techniques like bouncing off ceilings/walls, filling in shadows etc. I get by and get reasonably decent shots but the guys who do this as a job can produce outstanding results with a couple of speedlights.
Getting back to the point, a flashgun can make your camera a lot bigger and more cumbersome, but learn a couple of techniques on using it properly and it will make the world of difference to your shots! :thumbsup


On the noise front, a little point: If you nail the exposure in camera and don't play about with it on the computer, the noise will be a lot less. When you start to adjust exposure afterwards that's when the shots get really noisy.
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graeme
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by graeme » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:51 am

GBOBM wrote: On the noise front, a little point: If you nail the exposure in camera and don't play about with it on the computer, the noise will be a lot less. When you start to adjust exposure afterwards that's when the shots get really noisy.
Quite true. Better to go ISO 640 well exposed than ISO 400 slightly under exposed, for example.

My comment was based on the assumption that Sanjoy is struggling for light if he's considering a lens purchase just for another two-thirds EV.

A few tips for anyone struggling with this problem:

Knowing where the usable limits of the camera are is handy in low-light. On the 500D (similar to the 550D) I found, by experiment, ISO 800 to be just usable for "normal" indoor shooting in a "normally lit" room, whatever that means. I guess I mean comfortable home lighting levels. Any higher and you'll have to deal with the noise in post-processing. The problem is if you leave the camera on Auto-ISO it will happily push to 3200 or beyond and you'll wonder why your pictures aren't as good as they could be. You'll start thinking that f1.4 might solve the problem... Far more useful IMO is knowing that, with a bit of practice and a still-ish subject, you can usually hand-hold as slow as "1/focal length" without camera shake. The longer the focal length the faster the shutter speed needed. This is the same reason binoculars are ok when zoomed out, but can be wobbly to keep on target when zoomed in. The more you zoom, the faster you have to snap the shutter to freeze the wobble from your hands.

So, for 50mm in low light you should be able to hand-hold down to 1/60s without blurry pics. With practice, 1/40s. With uber-wedding-pro skills and your elbows tucked in tight, 1/15s! The slower you go, the more light you get, so the lower the ISO you need and the brighter your pics will be.

In low light, instinct might say to use Av mode (Canon's name for aperture priority) and set it to 1.8 for maximim light. The problem is the camera won't go to 1/40s, it will just bump the ISO to unusable levels. Instead, experiment with using Tv (shutter priority)mode, setting shutter to 1/60 (or lower if you think you can and your subject is quite still), manually set ISO to 400 or 800 and let the camera sort the aperture. If it can use f2 or f2.2 then it will, slightly improving your DoF, sharpness and reducing chance of missed focus, but it will use f1.8 when it feels it needs the light.

Next tip for low-light is Spot metering. Use it, get your chosen AF point on the subject and your subject will be nicely exposed. If you use any other metering mode, the camera might try to up the ISO (bad, remember?) to get the darker areas of the scene up to "acceptable" levels (e.g away from the left hand side of a luminance histogram). Sod it, just let the shadows go pure black... as long as the subject is well exposed nobody will be looking at them anyway.

There's always the rule, "If the light is sh*te, go black and white." Noise in B&W sort of approximates film-grain and can actually be used as an artistic tool, while digital colour noise will always look terrible. Also, areas of massively under or over exposed pixels in B+W are much less visually offensive.

If you shoot RAW you can make a lot of these decisions after the moment has been captured, but try to feed what you lean when processing your RAW back into the shooting process so that you can optimise exposure, because, well, because exactly what GBOBM said. Good exposure trumps post-processing for quality.
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by GBOBM » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:00 pm

Spot metering is a great piece of advice but you need to watch with some entry level cameras because they only spot meter based on the center focus point even though you may have moved your focus point to another one within the frame. Highly annoying.

Not sure if the 550D does this, but it certainly does this with some older entry level Nikon cameras.
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graeme
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by graeme » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:26 pm

550D is fine, it'll spot meter on the active AF point.

Good point though... If your camera only spot meters on the center AF point (check the manual) this won't work. Normal advice would be to get exposure lock on the center point and then re-compose, but beware... at the sort of apertures we are talking about here (f1.8 on a 50mm x1.6 crop) your depth of field gets very small very quickly if your subject is close. Easy to miss focus just by recomposing a close-up portrait.

Actually, you know what... Buy the fastest lens you can and stick your camera on full-auto; it's far less stressful and when it doesn't work you'll blame Canon, not yourself. :mrgreen:
Last edited by graeme on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by Sanjøy » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:35 pm

I have now learnt how to quickly flick between multi point AF and specifying specific single points which can be dramatic.

Image

f/1.8
1/80 sec
ISO-125
No flash
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by graeme » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:11 pm

That's the stuff! Great technique and composition (Google "Rule of thirds"). Lovely soft tones and background so soft and creamy.... that's why we love the thrifty-fifty! Large, soft light sources such as windows are great (small light sources give unflattering harsh-edged shadows). Main lighting from the side is very flattering too; that wee shadow from the nose is something studio photographers often try to emulate with artificial set-ups as it creates shape and contour, unlike on-axis lighting which makes a face look very flat. Lovely catchlights from the window in the eyes too. Obviously it's a cracking pic, but it's also a really lovely shot technically speaking. :thumbsup

Only one question... did you have the AF point bang on one eye?
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by rossybee » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:40 am

What a bonnie lad :thumbsup

Must take after his mother :blackeye
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by smee » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:39 pm

A bit late to the party here. I'd say get any dslr and work away with it. All of the frustrations with slow lenses or poor af you'll deal with as you profress and if you decide it's for you then you can always upgrade and sink all of your income into expensive glass :wink.

I wiuld say though that there is a big difference between 1000/1100d and 550d. I think my 40d has the same sensor and processor as the 450d but a mag body rather than plastic with better weather proofing?? Also I really hate the 17-55 kit on a lot of these and would look for the 17-85 USM instead.

I bought a compact Leica d-lux a few years ago for the days when a ruc sac full of camera crap was OTT. It shoots RAW and has an f2 lense but it just isn't the same. I'm currently reassessing my kit and my photography and may be packing in the lot for a while, not sure what I'm going to do yet.

P.s. Graeme loving your work with that x100. Would love to trade the Leica in for one.
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by Peter » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:09 pm

smee wrote:. I'm currently reassessing my kit and my photography and may be packing in the lot for a while, not sure what I'm going to do yet.
:shock: Why?
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Re: Thinking of buying a Digital SLR Camera .......

Post by Dominic » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:35 pm

Peter wrote:
smee wrote:. I'm currently reassessing my kit and my photography and may be packing in the lot for a while, not sure what I'm going to do yet.
:shock: Why?
:withstupid :shock: WTF!!
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