Clutch/brake fluid cooked.

[C7Steve]

See MMC Link for more detail;

http://www.scottishelises.com/phpbb/vie ... &start=420

Having just found out earlier today that my spirited driving had caused my clutch/brake fluid to be cooked, I was wondering why others that I was driving with, were not experiencing the same problem. ie struggling to select a gear whilst the engine was running.

The car was in for a C service in March, and this would have been changed then, and I was wondering what I was doing wrong for this to happen in the first place?

I probably was using the brakes more, since my car did not have the same tyres, suspension as others that were present. Only standard set up, and it's a 52 plate 111s. I was usually just touching the brakes to check my speed before entry, when I could not see the apex, and corner exit point. No hard braking at all, and only done about a couple of thousand miles on fast paced runs since the last change.

Maybe going on runs with Tut is the reason. Only joking.

I did check the fluid level this morning, because I thought that there may be a leak, or air bubble or something, but it seemed fine. After speaking to Craig at MMC, he told me that the fluid was black, after being cooked, but I did not know what colour it should have been anyway. I was only looking at the level, and for leaks.

You live and learn.

Anybody with any explanations, tips, or preventive measures?

Thanks, Steve.

[j2 lot]

Any chance the brakes could be binding on -surely the only explanation if it's boiling the fluid so readily

[Kinger]

Hi

Glad to hear it wasn't anything too serious, I was surprised that you managed to boiled the fluid as you didn't appear to be braking much when I was behind you on the way up to lunch. Think you must be a closet braker when we're not behind you.

You certainly didn't use the brakes much on the spirited run down to Ullapool.

Cheers

[Rich H]

Binding would show as a single cooked disc I'd think or one ruined pad if it's got that hot.
Normally if you spank them hard you'll smell the pads before you boil the fluid

Probably never been changed meaning it's full of water and it's boiling point will be way down on spec.

It won't normally be changed as part of a service unless you ask for it; learn to do it yourself and change it every couple of years.
Use a decent branded brand new unopened DOT4 fluid (DOT5.1 is better but doesn't last in road cars as it's more hygroscopic)
Do not be tempted by any DOT5 (Note DOT5 is not the same as DOT5.1!!!) fluids despite their claims they are not suitable - regular-ish changes are the key.

[Mikie711]

This actually sounds like clutch drag. I had this, but not quite as bad, with the 2-11. It gets very hard to change gear and if you are stationary it tries to creep forward. Also hard to get out of gear when stopped and near impossible to select first from neutral. It's to do with how the clutch pressure plate is tightened, weather they used the correct sequence when bolting it on. Causes the pressure plate to loose it's strength, so I was told.
I guess with prolonged use it could start to generate heat and boil the clutch fluid and given they share a common reservoir then it you wouldn't know weather it was brakes or clutch that caused it.
As far as I know they only solution is to change the clutch out, the factory will go through the various steps, via your dealer (MMC) before aurthorising the change as that is quite a big job.
You'll know if it is this as it will re-occur even though the fluid has been changed, just watch in traffic, if you take your foot off the brake while in first with foot on the clutch it still pulls forward. Weird the first time it happened to me, caught me by surprise and wondered what the hell was going on.

[C7Steve]

Hi

Glad to hear it wasn't anything too serious, I was surprised that you managed to boiled the fluid as you didn't appear to be braking much when I was behind you on the way up to lunch. Think you must be a closet braker when we're not behind you.

You certainly didn't use the brakes much on the spirited run down to Ullapool.

Cheers

Closet braker

[C7Steve]

This actually sounds like clutch drag. I had this, but not quite as bad, with the 2-11. It gets very hard to change gear and if you are stationary it tries to creep forward. Also hard to get out of gear when stopped and near impossible to select first from neutral. It's to do with how the clutch pressure plate is tightened, weather they used the correct sequence when bolting it on. Causes the pressure plate to loose it's strength, so I was told.
I guess with prolonged use it could start to generate heat and boil the clutch fluid and given they share a common reservoir then it you wouldn't know weather it was brakes or clutch that caused it.
As far as I know they only solution is to change the clutch out, the factory will go through the various steps, via your dealer (MMC) before aurthorising the change as that is quite a big job.
You'll know if it is this as it will re-occur even though the fluid has been changed, just watch in traffic, if you take your foot off the brake while in first with foot on the clutch it still pulls forward. Weird the first time it happened to me, caught me by surprise and wondered what the hell was going on.

Mike, you have got me slightly worried now, in thinking that it might be the clutch. I certainly don't want to incur the labour cost in replacing the clutch again, because it's been over a year since it was changed regarding the warranty through MMC. The car has never crept forward, only struggled to engage gear whilst engine on, and had to double de-clutch when changing down, as it would come out of gear easily enough, but I could not select the next one I wanted. Gearshift would slot fine when engine off.
I am surprised that it was the brakes, because I feel as though, I only touch them on the entrance to the corners, and I try to carry the speed through the bend, instead of braking hard, and accelerating out. I don't feel as though I am doing any different to most of the guys I have been out on runs with.

Puzzled

Steve.

[Mikie711]

Steve, you'll know if it is as will probably reoccur. We never really got to the bottom of the problem on my car. It was after I sold it that the same problem beset the new owner and I was told about the solution. What you describe does sound very much like the same as what I had. I am assuming your car is Toyota powered BTW as this problem only affects them and primarily ones fitted with the sports clutch rather than the standard clutch, but can happen to both types.

[neil]

Steve

I wouldn't worry too much. If the fluids never been changed then it could be something as simple as that. Mine gets done annually which is probably overkill but I'd rather that than lose the pedal on track. I guess you'll just have to keep an eye on it and see how it goes.

Cheers

Neil

[neil]

Steve, you'll know if it is as will probably reoccur. We never really got to the bottom of the problem on my car. It was after I sold it that the same problem beset the new owner and I was told about the solution. What you describe does sound very much like the same as what I had. I am assuming your car is Toyota powered BTW as this problem only affects them and primarily ones fitted with the sports clutch rather than the standard clutch, but can happen to both types.

It'll be a K

[C7Steve]

Mike, it's a Rover engine, with a standard replaced clutch.

Steve.

[Mikie711]

Nothing to worry about then Missed the 52 plate bit

[C7Steve]

Neil,

I thought that MMC do a brake fluid change, as part of their service.

Surly a type C service would include a fluid change for brakes/clutch.

Do you get your car serviced at MMC Neil?

Steve.

[C7Steve]

Nothing to worry about then

Apart from the K and HGF

[neil]

Yes i get it serviced at MMC but I think the bake fluid change isn't part of the standard service - could be wrong though