111R rebuild

[robin]

Hi Mike,

It doesn't appear on the 06 diagrams that there is a code link from alarm/immob to ECU, nor does the alarm system connect to the CAN bus so it's not possible that the disarm code is being sent over the CAN bus; thus I suspect that the ECU is not deliberately stalling the engine due to thinking it's immobilised, though of course it's always possible they didn't draw that wire on the wiring diagram

I don't think the cut out switch can cause this problem - it's mechanical and once tripped it remains tripped; the fuel pump won't prime once the cut-out switch has tripped - I assume your pump primes?

Can you check that the main relay remains engaged once stalled but with ignition still on ... that would be done by checking that both fuses R6 and R7 are live on both sides of each fuse. To be sure I'm reading it right it would be worth turning the ignition off, waiting a couple of minutes and then checking the fuses again to make sure they are no longer live.

It seems daft to suggest it, but have you checked all the fuses? There are lots of them it seems!

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

I have checked fuses R6 and R7 and they remain live after the engine has stalled. As soon as the ignition is turned off they are no longer powered. Didn't need to wait a couple of minutes they lost power as soon as the ignition was off. I have checked all the fuses and yes there are lots of them, some in quite awkward places.
This car doesn't have CAN BTW.

[robin]

And the fuel pump primes when you turn on the ignition after the power has been off for, say, at least 30 seconds and the immobiliser was cleared before you turn the ignition on.

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

You can hear the pump running before trying to start it and after it has stalled. There seems to be plenty fuel pressure in the line also. May try measuring how much fuel is come through from the pump in say 10secs, just to make sure there is no restriction somewhere. Yes the immobiliser is cleared as far as I can tell. Have done a spark test and all 4 coils are firing on crank but you can hear the engine catch in the video so was unlikely to be that. Going to try a different set of injectors, the original ones, just to see if it'll run with them or if the problem persists. The current ones in the car are Deatsch Werks green 440cc injectors so not original Lotus ones and were used not new.
If not them then beginning to think it is an ECU configuration issue. The ECU's Vehicle ID number does not match the cars VIN number and seem to remember in discussions with Craig that it was meant to be the same but not sure if I remember the conversation correctly, may not stop it running.

[robin]

For a non-CAN car I don't know how the ECU could discover that the VIN didn't match.

If you hold the throttle open while starting, does it run then?

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

That's a good point about CAN but the S1 ecu and alarm module were paired how did they manage it.
No it doesn't run with the throttle wide open.

[robin]

Hi Mike

On the S1 there is a wire that runs from alarm to ECU - the only purpose of this wire is to send the mating code that the ECU learns and insists on seeing before it lets the engine run. On your car there is no such wire on the wiring diagram, nor a CAN connection from ECU to anything much else.

It might be worth attaching an OBDII tool and seeing what the live readings say to see if any of the sensors are obviously returning nonsense?

Also thinking about it, the throttle is a red herring as it's an electronic throttle, I think?

I wonder if the ECU is not managing to control whatever the idle air control valve equivalent on the 111R engine is? Might be worth cheekily allowing a small amount of air to bleed through somewhere around that area, or manually forcing the throttle plate open a tad if that's possible? If you remove the air intake piping when you turn on the ignition can you see the throttle plate open/close at all?

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

Also thinking about it, the throttle is a red herring as it's an electronic throttle, I think?

It wasn't but is now, hence all the wiring loom changes.

Will connect an ODBII reader and watch it in live data to see if anything looks untoward.

I guess the cam sensor must receive a supply voltage from the ECU or is it completely inductive ? any way to measure the signal?

Will try a number of things tomorrow but might shelve the start up till I can talk with the factory, through Craig, to find out if the ECU is in fact configured properly. It may be looking for a can signal that it won't receive.

[robin]

There is only one part number listed for the cam position sensor in the deroure parts manual, so I assume all are the same.

The 06 diagrams show a two wire type which is 90% likely to be inductive so no signal unless the cam is spinning.

Cheers,
Robin

[robin]

P.S. Do you have the original vehicle diagrams for comparison of sensor wiring, etc.?

[robin]

OK, so I'm assuming the original vehicle had a different ECU connector as the ECU pin labels on the drawings are completely different?

I'm also assuming, therefore, that you have a new engine harness to go with the new ECU?

Given that, there is nothing to choose between '04 and '06 cam position sensor - both two wire twisted pair back to ECU. Only difference is that they've chosen different wire colours for some reason.

I did spot a difference in the TMAF sensor wiring; on the '04 model 4 wires go from TMAF to ECU; on '06 model two of the TMAF wires are spliced together somewhere in the loom and only three go to the ECU. If you have an '06 engine loom then no doubt this is what you've ended up with, but if you made your own loom you might have missed this distinction.

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

Robin,
you are correct the ECU has changed form a T4 to a T4E. These are completely different in size, shape and plugs. Both vehicle and engine wiring looms have been changed for the later type with the correct plugs and they were both new from the factory. The ECU remains the great unknown, when you buy a new ECU it is programed for your car via the cars VIN number which tells them what spec the car is. I.E. what it has electrically, ABS, AC, Airbags, supercharger or NA, electronic throttle or mechanical etc etc. Now obviously that wouldn't work in this case given that the car is now totally different than how it left Hethel so we told the factory the spec of the car and asked for the 260 map to suit the new spec. It occurs to me now that if they loaded a 260 map then likely the ECU is configured for the 08 and later car which is different again. So the problem could lie with the way the ECU has been set up. At this level of interfichery I am at the mercy of Craig being as he has advised what is and isn't possible as I have no idea how they set up the ECU's. Weather the base functionality can be swithed on and off between CAN and non CAN systems and the map loaded onto the preconfigured ECU, same as say an emerald. Or weather they have just loaded a straight 260 configuration without changing all the required settings for my car.

[Mikie711]

Robin, 08 MY wiring diagram sent

Post 1 updated, It were a clam cutting day

[robin]

Still no link to alarm system from ECU that I can see so don't think it's an immobiliser issue. Note the addition of TMAP (but you mention the position of the MAP sensor in #1 so I guess you have that fitted and wired) and also TPMS (cannot see the ECU caring about whether or not the TPMS unit is responding).

What you really need is a good friend with an '08-onward 260 Exige that you can go and unplug bits of the wiring on until you can reproduce your catch-and-stall symptoms on, then you'll know what the ECU is expecting to see but cannot see .... or it'll work with everything disconnected in which case you can try running your ECU on their engine instead?

Cheers,
Robin

[Mikie711]

Still working on the engine problem, more on that later once I hopefully resolve it. In the mean time post 1 updated with more progress in other areas.