Dangerous Driving

[BiggestNizzy]

BBC1 9PM tonight.... program about cars Vs cyclists.

My money is on cars, the big metal box offers better protection that lycra.

[Dominic]

Don't know if anyone else saw the program, but it would appear that things in London are considerably crazier than here.

Plenty of fcukwit cyclists and drivers. One of the main characters on the show (young self righteous tit) is going to get himself thumped sooner or later.

[Shug]

I didn't watch it as I assumed (correctly, it would seem) that it'd be the usual sensationalist reality pish and the producers would pick the most extreme examples of both to illustrate the massive 'problem'. Yeah, London is significantly more mental for it, but I'd bet not as mental as the programme would be insinuating...

[Mikie711]

Caught the end of it. A few choice words were thrown at the young guy and the guy that went out of his way to film people then hand out fliers telling them they would be on you tube. So seriously bad driving and cycling on show. How those couriers are still alive is beyond me.

[graeme]

It was fairly good I thought. They took idiot cyclists, idiot drivers, idiot victim's angry parents and created a fair amount of chuck-stuff-at-the-telly drama. But it all ended up with the cyclists admitting there were bad cyclists out there, and the drivers admitting there were bad drivers out there and that we all just need to get along.

For me it confirmed that London is the place I'd least like to live. C*nts, the lot of them!

[Scotty C]

i spent 8 years comuting to work as well has hunderds of miles each year training. I even got ran over, guy mangled my bike while i was still clipped into the pedals lying on the floor.

this is old school

Watch on YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_jUk8q923c

[martins]

Watched the programme and it has reconfirmed that the media really are only interested in starting a siht storms and they do not care how they do it.

In every walk of life you will always find those who have to take it to extremes. This was the case here. Agressive drivers and agressive cyclists sharing the same road space will lead to confrontation. It is human nature.

I used to cycle all the time. Close to 40 years to be exact. I still take to the bike from time to time but I no longer have the legs to cycle what I would regard to be safely in today's traffic, so now limit road cycling. In all those years I was properly knocked off my bike by cars twice. Both times I was cycling agressively and not defensively and that is the trick. Cycle like everyone is trying to kill you and you have a better chance of making it to your destination alive. This applies from the selection of road relative to the time of day, weather conditions etc, to the speed you cycle at relative to the vehicles around you. Cycle at 35 or 5 mph in a 30 mph limit and you are asking for trouble. In essence cycling is very much like driving in that if you 'go with the flow' you have a greater chance of co-existing with the traffic around you. Trying to go against the flow and you will come unstuck. Try to 'fight' with a motorised vehicle and you will come unstuck. It is no use being correct and dead. Cycle and remain calm. Take the moral high ground and let the motorists cook in their tin boxes. As was stated a couple of times on the TV. If the driver is cutting you up on your bike do you seriously think thumping the side of their vehicle is going to defuse the situation???? Not likely.

One final point. Cycling with headphones on listening to your 'beats' should immediately be an offence punishable by confiscation of your 'wheels' or a fine, or both. If you have not tried it, do so sometime. It is like reversing an exige with only an interior rearview mirror. It is possible but will eventually end in tears.

I feel much better now.....

If I thought there was money to be made in teaching people how to cycle I would love to give it a go but I do not believe there is a business model out there which would sustain such a venture....any ideas.....

M

[Shug]

Without a financial or legal penalty on cyclists using the road (this isn't an anti-cycling stance, BTW) then there will be very few interested in paying money to gain skills. If you look at the motoring equivalent, the vast majority do the minimum to be legally allowed behind the wheel and further training for most (not all, but most) comes down to "will it save me money on my insurance?"

Without a legal requirement for road training on a bicycle, or any requirement for insurance, third party or otherwise, there will be no incentive for the average cyclist to improve until they are involved in a close shave, or worse.

I genuinely think that the majority of these city vigilante types either don't drive, or don't drive very often - certainly have never thought about advanced training, or a motorcycle license. They are genuinely oblivious to danger and don't see the driver's issues with visibility focus and visual clutter, they see the car as an entity itself - an extension of the driver and his senses.

That's just my 2c as a keen driver, motorcyclist and someone who did cycle a lot in years gone by.

[woody]

Its a city thing though Shug. Commuting & fun rides here are poles apart from nipping accross town in Glasgow. TBH, I find the city stuff a lot more fun because of the danger/having to time things just so/beating everything off the lights.

I thought it was a pertty poor programme; I watched most of the clips shown one afternoon on youtube & all the commentary did was add a big stirring spoon.

[jj]

Since I moved down here I have been city cycling daily - and loving it. I see some cyclists on their fixies that are borderline suicidal, but the most dangerous group are the birds with their helmets on at jaunty angles and a miniature dog in a faux-vintage wicker basket on the front of their dutch bike.

At the risk of jinxing myself, I have yet to come into a situation that I didnt see coming; whether it is someone who hasnt seen me, or pulled out in front. As mentioned above its all about awareness, and from the start I have just assumed nobody sees me and to never get into a situation I can't escape from with minimal pain. Probably much like what you crazy motorbikists do at higher speeds.

Off to watch this programme on iPlayer.

[PhilA]

spoke about this with some folk who dislike cyclists.
the general agument being that cyclists dont belong on the road because they dont pay money towards road upkeep...
so, this gives drivers the right to cut up cyclists.

i used to cycle on the roads lots, and i had a bad accident (my fault). but i had plenty of near misses, including cars coming towards me, overtaking another car coming towards me.
i used to stare into their eyes so that the last thing they would see, if they killed me, was me looking at them.

[pete]

Without a financial or legal penalty on cyclists using the road (this isn't an anti-cycling stance, BTW) then there will be very few interested in paying money to gain skills. If you look at the motoring equivalent, the vast majority do the minimum to be legally allowed behind the wheel and further training for most (not all, but most) comes down to "will it save me money on my insurance?"

Just out of curiosity what advanced training have you done?

[andyc]

Not read all the posts on this but was at an IAM presentation at work today and quite sure the guy said they are now doing courses for cyclists.....mentioned the bus v's bike in London situation.

[campbell]

the general agument being that cyclists dont belong on the road because they dont pay money towards road upkeep...
so, this gives drivers the right to cut up cyclists.

I think we can dismantle that one pretty swiftly.

The "road tax" paid bears no relation to the "upkeep" of our "roads", IMHO. Therefore drivers realistically pay not much more than a cyclist will for the privilege - assuming the cyclist pays other dues like income tax, VAT, CGT and who knows maybe even some corporation tax (although perhaps not in the UK, LOL).

And of course cyclists apply way, way less wear and tear to our "roads" so their obligation to contribute to upkeep is massively diminished too.

Extending your colleagues' logic, are drivers entitled to cut up pedestrians too, on similar grounds?

Martin, I think the case for cyclist training is actually meritable. Timing may not be far off either. As people can less afford to run cars and / or look to cycling as a means of staying healthier, there might just be a steady tide of "converts". How much there is actually to be made is of course the big if, but perhaps a portfolio approach which includes bike sales, maintenance, tour services and goodness knows what else, could make a fab "green" business plan. Let us know how you get on

[mikeyb13]

Ive always found the car v cyclist argument as strange one. Growing up in Livingston, which is basically a network of cycle paths, we were not taught to cycle on the roads as it was dangerous.
In my line of work Ive seen a few fatalities when cyclists have been hit by cars. But never worse than a split head when a cyclist hits a pedestrian. I think that cyclist shouldn't be on the roads for their own safety.
I see videos on youtube all the time of cyclists taking risks in order to get some juicy footage. Cant get my head round risking a broken pelvis or worse for an extra few hits online or to beat the cars.
Yes there are lots of idiots on the roads, your not going to change that, so I dont cycle on them