Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

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Scuffers
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by Scuffers » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:00 am

jasonliddell wrote:
robin wrote:
ryallm wrote: Not sure Brawn stumbled on a magic formula though - was it not more the result of a massive development budget from Honda?
Mark
I think the diffuser was the magic sauce that made the car dominant - by mid season everyone had copied it and the car was middling. Whether it was random or the result of applied budget, it was just one thing. I agree random chance is not a big chance and is certainly no substitute for spending money!

Cheers,
Robin
Williams and Toyota also had double diffuser at start of season (the latter team also having vast budget)... Which proved there was more to it than just bolting on a DD. Always intrigued me that coincidental discovery of same loophole.

Brawn/Honda spent a vast budget through 2008 exclusively developing what was to be branded the Brawn. Another part of the magic formula was bolting on the merc engine, which showed to the team how underpowered and heavy a dog the Honda mill had become.
err... NO

the championship winning Brawn car was actually designed outside of Honda, it was a Super Aguri F1 Team product from 2007, a further year of design work at Honda in Brackley and Tochigi during 2008, and additional work at the Dome base in Maibara, Japan, (rumour had it they had 6 full sized wind-tunnels, in several countries, working on this car).

the reason it was so dominant in the first half of the season was Brawn had spotted the hole in the regs about double diffusers etc, this had been brought up at the FIA meetings the previous year, but nobody took any interest in it, so the loop hole stayed, he then used it.

Yes, the Honda engine was not spectaculer, but it was hardly a dog, and good as the Merc engine was, it was very much a bodge to make it fit.

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jason
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by jason » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:45 am

Scuffers wrote: reason it was so dominant in the first half of the season was Brawn had spotted the hole in the regs about double diffusers etc, this had been brought up at the FIA meetings the previous year, but nobody took any interest in it, so the loop hole stayed, he then used it.
Williams and Toyota had DD too. But not Brawn's success. Whilst the DD was clearly a very large factor, Williams and Toyota demonstrated the DD alone wasn't the sole factor, ie. it needed to be done 'properly' with the car's whole package working well.

The Mercedes engine was well recognised as being more competitive than the Honda. Lighter too IIRC.

Ignoring semantics, I''m not sure what I said that was wrong?

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GregR
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by GregR » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:37 pm

Erm, wasn't the key to Brawn's success the F-Duct?
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StiflerMR2
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by StiflerMR2 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:19 pm

Erm not sure if serious Greg?

F duct wasn't introduced until 2010 on the mp4-25. Called the F duct as the vent was placed under the f of Vodafone on the chassis....

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ryallm
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by ryallm » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:02 pm

More interesting developments in the driver market today. Perez out, Magnussen in at McLaren. Massa to Williams. Perez rumoured to be off to Force India. Which could leave Maldonado, Di Resta or Sutil without a seat when the music stops.

Interesting move by McLaren - after a year they have finally figured out what almost everyone else knew in the first place. Perez simply ain't that good :)

Mark

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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by robin » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:29 pm

Without looking at the stats, he seemed to be matching Button in the latter half of the season? Not saying that makes him good, just why do they chuck him out and keep Button? I like Jenson, but he's hardly set the world on fire at McLaren ...

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ryallm
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by ryallm » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:39 pm

Perez 35 points so fas this season, Button 60 - I guess those stats played a part. Apparently McLaren were also less than impressed with Perez's technical feedback. In fairness to Perez the car has been a bit of a dog though.

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jason
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by jason » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:22 pm

McLaren have all the data, and reportedly they see Perez's pace as lacking versus Button.

Both times Magnussen has driven the car he has impressed with his raw pace, and he apparently is faster that Perez in the simulator. The last GP Perez under-performed versus Button by some margin (looking at numbers, not actual result - Button had to pit for wing replacement) and many insiders are not convinced he will ever have the speed. With their continued pursuit of Alonso, the team clearly wants a faster, better performing driver so they may as well gamble on Magnunssen, keeping their 2015 options open.

Much rumour about the Lotus investment deal not being as done and dusted as it was claimed. Worrying for Hulkenberg getting a seat.

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jason
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by jason » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:15 pm

jasonliddell wrote:Much rumour about the Lotus investment deal not being as done and dusted as it was claimed. Worrying for Hulkenberg getting a seat.
The Quantum Motorsports (supposed Lotus/Genii investors) story appears to have 'dodgy' written all over it.

The head chap is named Mansur Ijaz... to save Googling, someone has pulled together an informative read: http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... e_quantum/

Can't help but worry for the team's future.

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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by Dominic » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:26 pm

jasonliddell wrote:
Can't help but worry for the team's future.
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greyrigg
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by greyrigg » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:58 am

Dodgy people in motorsport, who'd have ever thought that possible :D

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Mr Momo
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by Mr Momo » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:10 pm

Fingers crossed di Resta gets a seat....
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tut
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by tut » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:39 pm

Next years cars will have 4x the torque of this years.

tut

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GregR
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by GregR » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:20 pm

Mr Momo wrote:Fingers crossed di Resta gets a seat....
Because he's a Scot? Pretty mediocre season this year and notball down to the car sadly :(
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Graemei
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Re: Lotus F1 to sign Hulkenberg

Post by Graemei » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:58 pm

GregR wrote:
Mr Momo wrote:Fingers crossed di Resta gets a seat....
Because he's a Scot? Pretty mediocre season this year and notball down to the car sadly :(
Better than Sutil, but he's apparently signed up to Force India already. Wonder if they'd have kept him, if it wasn't for his sponsorships.

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