The Referendum

[Mikie711]

I think this sums up what is so sad about this whole affair, and makes me angry about what the SNP has brought about! We're in a lose-lose situation. The 'no' vote will probably signal a surrender to Westminster, and a 'yes' vote will be risk too far for many of us. Devolution was working well, and all the SNP seem to be doing is throwing the toys out the pram. At some sage, the UK government isn't going to put them back and the Scottish politicians are all going to have to grow up pretty quickly. Painful times ahead.

Not like they kept their plans for a referendum secret though is it. Was one of the corner stones of their campaign during the election.

[David]

I think this sums up what is so sad about this whole affair, and makes me angry about what the SNP has brought about! We're in a lose-lose situation. The 'no' vote will probably signal a surrender to Westminster, and a 'yes' vote will be risk too far for many of us. Devolution was working well, and all the SNP seem to be doing is throwing the toys out the pram. At some sage, the UK government isn't going to put them back and the Scottish politicians are all going to have to grow up pretty quickly. Painful times ahead.

Not like they kept their plans for a referendum secret though is it. Was one of the corner stones of their campaign during the election.

Agreed, you can't accuse them of not being upfront about it. But, as a nation, we're in danger of sleepwalking into independence (to borrow someone else's quote). Just as the vote at 16 seemed to slip through unnoticed, we need to pay attention to the details of what is being proposed by those in power as apathy is as good as agreeing to it.

[campbell]

People's Republic of Judea, anyone?

[Mikie711]

Agreed, you can't accuse them of not being upfront about it. But, as a nation, we're in danger of sleepwalking into independence (to borrow someone else's quote). Just as the vote at 16 seemed to slip through unnoticed, we need to pay attention to the details of what is being proposed by those in power as apathy is as good as agreeing to it.

Fear not, I think apathy is far more likely to hurt the yes vote. Support for this is fairly thin despite all the rhetoric. Still think it will be an opportunity lost, this is a far greater country than many give it credit for. Certainly more resilient and inventive than anywhere else in the UK or Europe.

[campbell]

I have been pretty impressed by Switzerland and Germany. I think they easily eclipse Scotland for resilience. And Germany on inventive, eg their infrastructure and industry.

[PhilA]

to be honest, if a yes comes in I am moving south.
only because its a hell of a risk to stay up here.
its a huge gamble, and I have no ties (can sell the house, can get another job).
i love scotland, i love living here, but I would hate it if we were independent and no longer part of the uk. too much uncertainty.

[PhilA]

but I also agree about we are now backed into a corner if we stay in the uk.
I said that to folk when the independence pony was being brought to market, but everyone I said it to laughed at me.
its just like when you push your luck too much when you are a kid - and all the "let you off" that your parents have given you are suddenly removed.
devo-max was the way to go, stupid clueless SNP wanting independence "at all costs".
Its all they care about... i dont trust that.

[PhilA]

there is an opportunity here tho - to allow the blue and white face painters who also like the UK to stand up and say that We are part of the Uk and we are proud of it. Distance ourselves from the "300 years ago you knobbled my great great great great grandad and so I hate you" mentality. Show the moderate mutal respect and acknowledgement of we infact have achieved alot together.
All the inventions that have been made during the union, all the social developments - no slaves, women voting, housemen, gay marriages, anti-racism. The big impression that the UK has made around the world as a haven for goodness. We made that together.
This 300 year internal conflict has scarred our relationship - the anti-english abuse, the constant chip on shoulder. We have a not bad health service, an excellent education setup, we are always moving things forward, learning from each other. Raising our game.

Why oh why would we change that just because we could?

[BiggestNizzy]

Support for this is fairly thin despite all the rhetoric.

Pretty much

to be honest, if a yes comes in I am moving south.

No you won't

devo-max was the way to go, stupid clueless SNP wanting independence "at all costs".

SNP wanted a 3rd option. (devo-max) Westminster said no. The SNP would would have won devo-max no problem that's why they didn't get it.

Putting my cards on the table I would like a close vote. I beleive we can afford it and I am aware nothing I or anyone will say will convince those who don't agree.

Can anyone explain why we as a country are so sh*t that we need Englands protection (Wales and Northern Ireland aint bringing much to the party let's be honest) are we really that pathetic a nation ? Are we a wayward child that's going to be spanked?

[Rusty]

Can anyone explain why we as a country are so sh*t that we need Englands protection (Wales and Northern Ireland aint bringing much to the party let's be honest) are we really that pathetic a nation ? Are we a wayward child that's going to be spanked?

This is what i ask people at work when this discussion comes around,

If we are a pathetic nation that needs looked after and such a drain on resources that we wouldn't be able to finance ourselves, why do they want to keep us as part of the UK?
better together say we can't afford to be on our own and that we are paid for by the rest of the UK. Isn't that a good enough reason for them to tell us to get lost and go our own way, yet they just do the opposite!

Those who are set on voting no, won't be persuaded.
Those who are set on voting yes, won't be persuaded.

Those stuck in the middle are the ones i feel sorry for.
the Yes lot at least say WHY we should go alone,
the better together say why we CAN'T manage on our own, not why we SHOULD stay together!

[BiggestNizzy]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... dependence

[avdb]

it is a great opportunity - yes from me

[thinfourth]

Can anyone explain why we as a country are so sh*t that we need Englands protection (Wales and Northern Ireland aint bringing much to the party let's be honest) are we really that pathetic a nation ? Are we a wayward child that's going to be spanked?

The main thing England protects us from is the Scottish government and it huge piles of morons who believe the Scottish people need saving from themselves and they want everything under microscopic control.

[pete]

Can anyone explain why we as a country are so sh*t that we need Englands protection (Wales and Northern Ireland aint bringing much to the party let's be honest) are we really that pathetic a nation ? Are we a wayward child that's going to be spanked?

The main thing England protects us from is the Scottish government and it huge piles of morons who believe the Scottish people need saving from themselves and they want everything under microscopic control.

So the main thing England protects Scots from is other Scots.

And the reason we need protecting from these other Scots, let's call them the bad Scots for clarity, is that the bad Scots are constantly interfering in the lives of the good Scots - presumably to their detriment.

So with no sense of irony whatsoever you are suggesting that what we need is another set of people, the English, to interfere in the lives of both the good Scots and the bad Scots to protect them from themselves.

[David]

I wonder how long it'll be be before the Americans move in to 'liberate' us from the 'oppressive' SNP regime?