Next SIDC event at Knockhill, Saturday 7th October

[alicrozier]

Guys,

I've raised the issues with the poor driving standards in that video with Knockhill, and also with CCI. I've not received a response yet from CCI, but explained how our days are run to very strict guidelines etc. I ahve also invited them along to watch/participate in one of our events so they can see how things operate.
...

Thanks John, good work.
I assume the the insurance decision has been made on a perception of risk from the vid, not from any safety statistics or insurance claims.
I would be happy to write a letter confirming the excellent and safe standard of SIDC trackdays (and even HM) if that helps.

In the meantime there must be some sort of discount for you if Knockhill are not on the insurers acredited list...

Still not convinced by KH's answer about the tyre barriers, even if the MSA nonsense is correct. IMO if an insurer saw them he would be even less likely to give insurance.

[Brian J]

My 2p worth of random comments:

- MSA requirements can have nothing to do with trackdays surely - they are for testing this Saturday and racing Sunday?

- On the other hand, the bales did not concern me greatly (maybe my peripheral vision is going - a warning to all!!) - as has been said elsewhere on this thread (Mac?) if you get it wrong you may spear very fast into the outside tyre barriers on wet grass anyway.

- the going to English circuits is misleading - higher speeds - seen the armco on some exits at Oulton? - loads-of-damage there; ask Shug about Cadwell? - come off at the Jim Clark esses at Croft and you'll be a mess.

[Shug]

- the going to English circuits is misleading - higher speeds - seen the armco on some exits at Oulton? - loads-of-damage there; ask Shug about Cadwell? - come off at the Jim Clark esses at Croft and you'll be a mess.

Point being about this is that I'd already overcooked it a couple of times that day, gone onto the grass and saved it. When I went into the tyres, it was where there was little runoff and it was on wet grass.

There were 2 occasions that time at Cadwell, where had these tyre bales been next to the track, I would have wiped out the car and probably hurt myself.

Would I have been going slower to miss them in the first place? Hard to say, but I was not pushing hard at that section of the track, as there isn't much runoff - it just got away from me. That's what the facking runoff is for anyway!!

I have to say, if this is what KH claim they have to do, I won't be back. I'll risk a trip to the gravel, or the barriers at KH, after bleeding speed off on the grass - but I'm not gonna write off the car on some fcuking rediculous nanny barriers next to the track. Safety my pink, hairy arse.

I'll get saving for the next Oulton/Cadwell, etc. KH can GTF.

[mckeann]

Brian, your correct in that the speeds are higher at other circuits, and the dangers are higher because of that, But as far as i'm concerned, Knockhill arent doing everything in there powers to reduce the risk as far as is reasonably practical.

No one can expect them to spend a fortune making it impossible to crash, and to some extent, that would remove some of the fun (thats the difference between bedford and the nurburgring) but to purposefully put a large heavy object even closer to the track just seems wrong to me.

[alicrozier]

Brian, your correct in that the speeds are higher at other circuits, and the dangers are higher because of that, But as far as i'm concerned, Knockhill arent doing everything in there powers to reduce the risk as far as is reasonably practical.

No one can expect them to spend a fortune making it impossible to crash, and to some extent, that would remove some of the fun (thats the difference between bedford and the nurburgring) but to purposefully put a large heavy object even closer to the track just seems wrong to me.

Sense from McApe...

Wholeheartedly concur old boy!

[simon]

Wholeheartedly concur old boy!

Me too

[Brian J]

Maybe I haven't seen the latest barriers - and I concede that Neil has a point if additional risks are being created.

I've had a fear for some time that insurance (or lack of it for circuits/organisers) may eventually kill trackdays long before trackdays kill us - which is why I try to do as many as possible - don't misunderstand - I do enjoy the English circuits too.

[Digital]

Well I'm now actually thinking of leaving it until Saturday to see what happens then. If anyone has the video or can point me at it let me know. I haven't actually seen the caterfield crash yet!

http://www.scottishcarclub.com/phpbb/vi ... highlight=

Some of the driving in the video is just plain scary. Check out the Caterfield crash at about 3 mins in

[simon]

There's something wrong with the caterfield a good half lap before it crashes, you can see something at the rear, either flames or smoke. Wonder it the gimp car actually tagged it at the hairpin and broke something. Either way, shocking driving from them all.

[alicrozier]

Coolant...

[kenny]

Just thinking about this, it sounds like pish to me. How can Phil have been on a track night a few weeks ago that had no tyres up if it's part of MSA rules? And why were we told at the last SIDC day that they were a one-off? Things just don't add up and I can't possibly understand why the MSA would insist on sticking dangerous blocks of tyres on some but not all corners.

I was going to post something very similar yesterday but decided not to.
Can only agree with what most have said, doubt I'll be back on track at KH this year.

[JohnStewart]

Thanks John, good work.
I assume the the insurance decision has been made on a perception of risk from the vid, not from any safety statistics or insurance claims.
I would be happy to write a letter confirming the excellent and safe standard of SIDC trackdays (and even HM) if that helps.

In the meantime there must be some sort of discount for you if Knockhill are not on the insurers acredited list...

Still not convinced by KH's answer about the tyre barriers, even if the MSA nonsense is correct. IMO if an insurer saw them he would be even less likely to give insurance.

Yes, insurance decision based on the video, on the basis that the marshalls were letting this happen, so may be this poor at ALL events.

Letter - would be great if you could, though I'd be tempted to wait to see what happens with their current investigations.

Tyres - not convinced about the MSA stuff either, but perhaps there was an inspection at some point. I can't remember many corners on other circuits where it is possible to take huge short-cuts through some of the corners (either big gravel traps or armco) - and it may not be done for safety reasons, but possibly to prevent cheating. If one person does it, then all racers will try it....

I've already tried for a discount, as we were below break even point on Monday. Now looking like we'll have just enough to cover our costs

John

[Gareth]

Thanks John, good work.
I assume the the insurance decision has been made on a perception of risk from the vid, not from any safety statistics or insurance claims.
I would be happy to write a letter confirming the excellent and safe standard of SIDC trackdays (and even HM) if that helps.

In the meantime there must be some sort of discount for you if Knockhill are not on the insurers acredited list...

Still not convinced by KH's answer about the tyre barriers, even if the MSA nonsense is correct. IMO if an insurer saw them he would be even less likely to give insurance.

Tyres - not convinced about the MSA stuff either, but perhaps there was an inspection at some point. I can't remember many corners on other circuits where it is possible to take huge short-cuts through some of the corners (either big gravel traps or armco) - and it may not be done for safety reasons, but possibly to prevent cheating. If one person does it, then all racers will try it....


John

Then a cone on the corner will be enough.

[craigieb]

Any chance of some pax laps* with someone?

* definitely will track the car myself sometime soon, but need to get training first!

cheeky ditto of the above ...any chance of a couple of pax laps guys?

[ed]

of course!