Independence SE Poll

[Mikie711]

Seems a lot of folks scared and extremely pessimistic, more so on here than in my day to day life.

Without being rude, I guess a great deal of the people on here are generally well off (more so than the average) and as such prefer to mitigate any risk, rather than grasp an opportunity.

I think the demographic on here is reflected in the poll. People are generally resistant to change irrespective of what the change is. This being a complicated subject matter and many unanswered questions means a higher proportion of doubters who would rather stick with what they have, understandably. SNP have failed to bring sufficient facts to the table to sway people in this segment of the population. Not entirely their fault as only one side is offering any options but to be expected non the less.

[BigD]

Without being rude, I guess a great deal of the people on here are generally well off (more so than the average) and as such prefer to mitigate any risk, rather than grasp an opportunity.

I'm all for grasping opportunities but mitigating the risk as much as possible.

[BigD]

Without being rude, I guess a great deal of the people on here are generally well off (more so than the average) and as such prefer to mitigate any risk, rather than grasp an opportunity.

I'm all for grasping opportunities but mitigating the risk as much as possible.

Oh and on a side note regarding North Sea oil, I was reading an interesting article recently suggesting that the major oil companies are borrowing up to the hilt at the moment, betting on rising oil prices to pay off their debts in future. Seems a bit of a risky strategy to me. There was comment that in some oil fields the cost of getting the oil out is over $60 a barrel and when the oil price is only $100 a barrel that's not a great margin. Some of the more extreme fields in the likes of the Arctic are barely breaking even?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... -cash.html

I only mention this as Scotland's oil is often used as a reason for independence.

[renmure]

The TV issue doesn't really matter to me since I hardly watch it, but from what David is saying it does seem indicative of many issues where you get someone who knows a bit more than "the man in the street" and can look a bit closer at the details and conclude that things don't really add up as they are said to add up.

Mrs C works in the area of intellectual property and in career terms is pretty high up the slippery slope in the area of oil and gas technology. Companies invest megabucks in this area so her company has a whole group of staff and directors liaising with Scottish Government officials, the SNP and Civil Servants to find out the detail of how the landscape for IP in an independent Scotland would change (and it would, markedly change) following a Yes vote. The answers coming back are just broad brush, "The Scottish Government would seek to establish a system... blah blah blah..." which is fine for glib answer that, yeah we have that covered, but there are no details and there can be no possible scenario where it doesn't make it significantly more expensive for anyone to do business in Scotland than it is at the moment.

Does that matter to me? Nope. But it does mean that when I hear folk across business, industry and commerce challenging the figures, costs and details across a huge range of policy areas that are being bandied about by the Yes campaigners as being either unrealistic or pie in the sky then it makes me appreciate even more that voting Yes is a bigger step into the unknown than it even appears at first sight.

Throughout the whole debate all I see is the No campaigns negativity about anything and everything, apparently there are no positives to this.

Highlighting where things don't add up isn't negativity, it is constructive debate and should add to the pool of information that folk have before they walk towards the ballot box. I am firmly in the No side of the debate but can actually see lots of things which would be great and desirable in an independent Scotland and others that have less or no appeal.

Unfortunately the politicians on the Yes side can't realistically admit that they don't really know the details of what will happen across a huge range of issues so they have to have sound bites and broad brush replies to give the impression that everything is carefully costed, considered and under control. It seems ludicrous to be offended at having these details, or lack of details, challenged.

It really comes down to a choice between the devil you know and the devil you don't. It probably always did.

[rossybee]

Without being rude, I guess a great deal of the people on here are generally well off (more so than the average) and as such prefer to mitigate any risk, rather than grasp an opportunity.

I'm all for grasping opportunities but mitigating the risk as much as possible.

Yup - that's like saying entering a bookies and putting on a bet is grasping an opportunity - but at least with Wullie Hill/Ladbrokes/etc you're given odds prior to punting, or in other words, given transparency...

[flyingscot68]

I've given up reading the arguments.
You're all arguing the toss here about things that nobody has definitive answers to.
The vote is quite simple - do you think Scotland should be an independent country? YES or NO?
It's not asking if you think yes or no based on how many TV channels there may or may not be or whether you think independence will be better or worse for you and your own particular set of circumstances.
This country could be great if we have the right people running it, to me there is no question of that. There'll be a lot to sort out and no doubt much negotiation between Scotland, England and Europe if there is a yes vote. Only then will we see the true picture of what independence will actually look like for Scotland.
Thing is, if we don't vote yes then we will be stuck as part of the UK, a country which, let's face it, is no longer great and hasn't been for a long time.

[Mikie711]

Thing is, if we don't vote yes then we will be stuck as part of the UK, a country which, let's face it, is no longer great and hasn't been for a long time.

[renmure]

I've given up reading the arguments.
You're all arguing the toss here about things that nobody has definitive answers to.
The vote is quite simple - do you think Scotland should be an independent country? YES or NO?
It's not asking if you think yes or no based on how many TV channels there may or may not be or whether you think independence will be better or worse for you and your own particular set of circumstances

Genuine at that.

[Stevoraith]

It's not asking if you think yes or no based on ........whether you think independence will be better or worse for you and your own particular set of circumstances.

Surely that's the ONLY thing we should be asking!?

Read/listen to the arguments, decide which bits you think are most realisistic and then based on that, decide what will suit you best.

You'd be foolish to do anything else unless you've got so little that you don't care or so much that it doesn't matter.....

Personally I work for a defence contractor- in the event of a Yes vote there's a chance that my job will be uneffected but most likey my company will take a hit in some way or another.
That risk alone makes the vote easy for me.

If others weigh things up in the same manner and come up with the opposite verdict then great.

But surely everyone should be voting for what's best for them!?

[flyingscot68]

It's not asking if you think yes or no based on ........whether you think independence will be better or worse for you and your own particular set of circumstances.

Surely that's the ONLY thing we should be asking!?

Read/listen to the arguments, decide which bits you think are most realisistic and then based on that, decide what will suit you best.

You'd be foolish to do anything else unless you've got so little that you don't care or so much that it doesn't matter.....

Personally I work for a defence contractor- in the event of a Yes vote there's a chance that my job will be uneffected but most likey my company will take a hit in some way or another.
That risk combined with the absence of any tangible benefits I can see makes the vote easy for me.

If others weigh things up in the same manner and come up with the opposite verdict then great.

But surely everyone should be voting for what's best for them!?

No. I think you're totally wrong.
The vote is about what's best for the country as a whole and is a lot longer term than the lifespan of anyone that's voting.

You've got to look at the bigger picture and not just what affects you over the next few years.

That's my opinion, you are of course fully entitled to your own.

It took me quite a while to see it that way, I was a NO for a long time but now I'm starting to see things in a different light.

[renmure]

But you are not suggesting that people should look at the bigger picture and weigh up what they think would be better for the country in the long term and vote accordingly because that involves a wee bit of weighing stuff up. Similarly I can't see how you can ask people to vote for independence without telling them what that involves unless you generalise it almost to the point of Brigadoon, purple heather, tartan and Tunnocks Tea Cakes.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure that there are folk who will vote Yes on the basis of the above but I am genuinely surprised to see someone advocating it.

[Stevoraith]

You've got to look at the bigger picture and not just what affects you over the next few years.

That's my opinion, you are of course fully entitled to your own.

Yep, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I couldn't care if 'the average family' will be X% better off, if my family are worse off then I'm not voting for it. And I don't mean worse off in the sense of having to pay extra few pounds in tax, I mean worse off as in losing my job or my shift allowance.

No amount of consoling myself with "ah, it's better for the country in the long run" would help send the kids to uni (or put a Lotus in the garage )

That probably makes me selfish- I'd be interested to hear what others think.

Voting for what is best for others is all very noble but it takes me back to the point I made earlier about having so little that you don't care or so much that it doesn't matter....

[campbell]

The Referendum is a vote, not a committee decision.

So on that basis I'll be voting with mine and my immediate dependents' interests at heart, and no others. Period.

As for "doing the right thing for the country", well that's quite a big ask but I already do what I can on that in my daily life, primarily through work / enterprise but also through social responsibility and community things and so on. And I'll continue to do so regardless of any referendum.

[flyingscot68]

You seem to be missing my point.
Nothing is known, you don't know that you'll lose your job, you don't know if you'll be worse or better off, and you certainly have no idea whether you are doing the right or wrong thing for your kids or grandkids by voting either way.
None of us have any solid answers, it's all speculation.

The only proper fact available is that we have a country that can stand on it's own two feet in the world, I don't think there's any doubt about that.

[tut]

So on that basis I'll be voting with mine and my immediate dependents' interests at heart, and no others. Period.

As for "doing the right thing for the country", well that's quite a big ask but I already do what I can on that in my daily life, primarily through benefits/pensions, but also through social responsibility and community things and so on. And I'll continue to do so regardless of any referendum.

That was my decision from the start. I do not know if it will be a better Country if it does go alone, so was not prepared to take the chance.

However if Alex assured me that there will be no Scam Vans or patrol cars north of Tyndrum, then he could well get my vote.

tut