Independence SE Poll

[David]

Pensions are paid to us from down South.

If the currency situation is screwed up which is very likely, then our £'s would have to be converted and paid in Glots with the resulting costs for currency conversion every month.

tut

I thought that state pensions (future and current) will be transferred. Private pensions from where they decide to base themselves. My fear is that Scotland will physically run out of cash as it can't print money - that means the balance sheet will have the final say, or our lenders. Empty cash machines and banks refusing withdraws is a possibility. Financial crash in other words.

[PhilA]

Pensions are paid to us from down South.

If the currency situation is screwed up which is very likely, then our £'s would have to be converted and paid in Glots with the resulting costs for currency conversion every month.

tut

I thought that state pensions (future and current) will be transferred. Private pensions from where they decide to base themselves. My fear is that Scotland will physically run out of cash as it can't print money - that means the balance sheet will have the final say, or our lenders. Empty cash machines and banks refusing withdraws is a possibility. Financial crash in other words.

yup, says in the White Paper that the Scottish Government will become responsible for the state pension for those that already are in receipt of it.

i.e. you get it paid to you by taxes from current workers.
thats abit of a problem.

[PhilA]

I think that those who don't pay tax, I.e benefit dodgers etc. (Not including the disabled or elderly) shouldn't be allowed an opinion, I wonder how that would change the opinion on yes or no!

Would probably reduce the yes vote by quite a margin separating the chat from the wheat!

The real issue is slightly wider than that, the best way i can put the problem is that they give stupid people a vote.

interesting this. we are stereo typing, but no smoke without fire.
i think that perception is due to arguments of facts being dismissed by pure optimism.
One person at work, I cannot get him to accept any argument. In fact, its quite funny, hes thinking theres a conspiracy on the go.
A friend is really intelligent, and thinks that its best to go independent due to UKIP being in gov next election. I have pointed out that its temporary if it does happen, and the likely hood is that it wont due to UKIP taking Tory votes and overall biggest parties likely be Labour and Libdems, with Greens on the rise.

Another friend is SNP through and through. We were talking today in work about the currency union. I was shocked - he thought that just using the pound was the same as currency union. I had to pause, im not someone to mock or that, but I was abit surprised. I asked him to be sure, and aye, he thought it was same.
When I pointed out the difference, he acknowledged it and we left it as that.
Its kinda scary, and hes no idiot, I think he just wants independence as he always has, and so hasnt looked into the facts.
I mean, when the independence trail started for him in SNP, they wanted the Euro, so other than wanting independence, hes never had to look at the facts.

All my posts are supposidly propoganda.

I dont hold anything against anyone's view - free will and all that - but certainly I am not just learning about possible changes to UK and Scotland, I am also learning some human psychology.

Just wish so much wasnt at stake

[tut]

Problem is that the OAP at present is around £108/week, but without a currency union which seems unlikely, this would have to be paid by a Scottish Government in what ever currency we end up with.

Likewise if I buy something on eBay for £100, this is going to cost me £110 in the Glot equivalent, there would be two conversion costs, one for eBay and one for PayPal.

tut

[ClarkyBoy]

So you're suggesting that 51% of the voting population are stupid? I think it's that way of thinking that's got the No campaign into the mess it's in

I think you missed the point by a fair margin there Neil, I think the point is that the amount of uneducated Yes voters vs the amount of uneducated No voters would be quite a large difference, not in anyway saying that Yes voters are stupid, but just think of the amount of benefit seeking scum that have idealistic views on independence who may have watch brave heart one too many times.

Some of the behaviour I have seen of yes campaigners (and I fully understand this is likely a minority and does not represent the whole movement) is quite frankly scary and not unlike that of behaviour in Northern Ireland not that long ago. Separatism is never a good thing.


To be honest that's probably my biggest issue with the whole thing, I am not only very proud to be scottish, and of course I love my country and I do not want to see it ruined, nor do I want to see it frowned upon by other nations.

We are a small enough country as GB already, why give out selves less of a chance in the world by getting smaller?

[ClarkyBoy]

All said,

I really hope that if independence does come to fruition, then I am proven very very wrong, at the end of the day this is a country that I'm sure we all indent on being in and proud to be a part of for a long time.

[KingK_series]

Blimey... I thought you disappeared way back on 24th April when someone asked you for your very own (ie not a cut/paste of someone else's) opinion on being Better Together.

Forgive me

I actually started the thread so that I could hear scottish opinion rather than put my own


however Since april I have had to go to four funerals of people very c;lose to me - the last my mother, so honestly - I really did hope to just start a proper, informed debate in Scotland, at least on this forum

- sadly precious little of that seems to have happened, at least until the speech tonight by Johann

- I really hope everyone in Scotland heard it.

Thankyou -


http://labourlist.org/2014/03/scottish- ... onference/


- today Mark Carney made clear that a currency union is incompatible with Scottish independence - something that was obvious to many for months - let alone from his speech in the spring.

Clearly currency union will never happen - and must not happen for the sake or RUK.

so Scotland will need to find it's own currency solution whatever that might be - Salmonds claims therefore like his claims about the NHS and 'bedroom' tax are simply dishonest.

I personally think he is contemptible for the way he has tried to manipulate opinion, and wonder what his motives are - so he wants to be part of the EU? but break up the UK? -
down here he comes across as someone who simply hates the English.

[pete]

So you're suggesting that 51% of the voting population are stupid? I think it's that way of thinking that's got the No campaign into the mess it's in

I think you missed the point by a fair margin there Neil, I think the point is that the amount of uneducated Yes voters vs the amount of uneducated No voters would be quite a large difference, not in anyway saying that Yes voters are stupid, but just think of the amount of benefit seeking scum that have idealistic views on independence who may have watch brave heart one too many times.

Some of the behaviour I have seen of yes campaigners (and I fully understand this is likely a minority and does not represent the whole movement) is quite frankly scary and not unlike that of behaviour in Northern Ireland not that long ago. Separatism is never a good thing.

Behaviour like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A

It's certainly not my experience that Yeses are idiots but I'm sure we move in different circles. I have found Yes voters are more likely to be left leaning, and more likely to be educated about politics.
I've not heard any Yes voters citing Braveheart yet I've heard lots of No voters citing patriotism, the flag and confusing independence with Alex Salmond.
But anecdotes are meaningless.

Doesn't mean we should be independent (but when it comes to patriots I'm with Johnstone) it does mean we shouldn't judge a whole campaign on the handful of people we meet!

[robin]

benefit seeking scum

Nothing to do with independence, but we really must avoid falling into this trap - the government, with the assistance of the media, has conditioned you into thinking "benefits seeking scum" rather than "unemployed". Of the enormous amount of money we spend on social welfare, the vast majority goes on things that you would consider reasonable. Of course there are actually some people with questionable work ethic engineering their lives to collect benefits, but let's be careful not to label people on benefits as "benefits seeking scum".

Of course by focussing on the benefits minority you ignore the even smaller minority that are actually responsible for the financial woes

Cheers,
Robin

[flyingscot68]

Behaviour like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A

It's certainly not my experience that Yeses are idiots but I'm sure we move in different circles. I have found Yes voters are more likely to be left leaning, and more likely to be educated about politics.
I've not heard any Yes voters citing Braveheart yet I've heard lots of No voters citing patriotism, the flag and confusing independence with Alex Salmond.
But anecdotes are meaningless.

Doesn't mean we should be independent (but when it comes to patriots I'm with Johnstone) it does mean we shouldn't judge a whole campaign on the handful of people we meet!

Some top notch thought provoking opinions there!
Sounds like they're all planning to move to England and Wales should there be a yes vote.
If that's the case it'll certainly reduce the benefits bill for Scotland


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BiggestNizzy]

Please remember this is a forum for people who can or have spent at least £10k or so on a toy car. I don't think there are many people on here visiting food banks because they don't have anything to eat. Tarring everyone with the same brush wither they are are voting yes or no or are 'benefit seeking scum' doesn't paint anyone in a good light. The independance thing is complex we are two countries that have been joined for more than 300 years. If it were to be unravelled it will take a lot of work and a lot of compromise on both sides.

[Rosssco]

Its not that many Yes voters are less intelligent of course, its about priorities.

There is evidence that demographics will play a significant part in the decision, and as humans are fundamentally short-sighted, issues such as the welfare state, NHS spending, public services are the priorities for many in a certain demographic group. The SNP / Yes campaign have very successfully manipulated the debate to focus what is major constituional change,an irreversible decision, and strong possiblity of significant economic turmoil, into one based on relatively short-term issues that affect us now, and are of our time.. We'll sacrifice long-term security and stability, for the short-term pleasure and relief in avoiding the difficult decisions that have to be made, and ignorance of the real problems that affect us.

I find it sadly ironic that people who are worried about welfare spending, the NHS, and public services are more inclined to vote on the path that is likely to damage these things even more in Scotland, due to the false promises of a political party that's willing to sacrifice so much to achieve their singular aim in life.. It just shows the power a political vision can have on people, even if it is most likely just a mirage..

[greyrigg]

As Mrs T said, the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

I actually help in a homeless meals project and see directly what true poverty is like but it is wealth creation we need, not redistribution, and wealth creation does not figure too highly in the debate.

Malcolm

[Shug]

I've kept fairly quiet on this on all platforms as the gnashing of gums on both sides is pretty tiresome. However, I have genuine creeping cold fear if Scotland does vote yes. I can't see a situation where small businesses (especially those dependent on trade nationally within the UK, never mind internationally) won't get screwed in some way or another. In my line of work, you just have to look at the situation with couriers - delivery to N Ireland is under the same rates as the rest of the UK, the minute you send something a mile over the border, it's immediately an international rate. Clearly, there are currency reasons in that example, but it's just a small indicator of the death by a thousand cuts which will affect our country's trade relations.

I'm still not buying the conflicting reasoning WRT Sterling or Euro in an Indy Scotland - the EU won't let us sign up as a new member without taking on the Euro and if we keep Sterling, we're effectively importing a currency and allowing the BoE control - what the Yes campaign is trying to wrestle from England in the first place...

I can only hope that the swing to Yes that was reported and he subsequent situations with markets reacting/mortgage lender worries has had the good fortune to get the vote to swing back to No by the time of the election.

[tut]

Just listened to my last debate/discussion/argument/shouting match/man-in-the-street interview.

It has all been said, it is now just going around in circles.

tut