A different engine conversion

[r10crw]

So for the last 10 years (mental) I've been hurtling around the north east country side in a Lotus and despite a very (very) brief run with a Noble (although I had a VX at the same time) Im still messing about with elises.

Over the time I've put in different engines, turbo charged/supercharged and in almost all cases made the cars heavier. Its been a lot of fun and the last one was a brilliant car, when occasionally getting to play with a similarly quick car it was epic. The trouble was the actual drive wasn't any better, yes it could accelerate, and there was something about pulling away from a 650bhp Evo 6 TME on the two occasions we went out together but I dont believe I enjoyed it anymore than when owning 120bhp elises. This leaves me with what I believe was the best all round elise for me. An S1 with a VHPD running around 200hp. Yes 160 is enough, but 200 allows you a little extra to play with when hooning and 160 for everyday back road driving or to work etc.

So thats it then?

I believe the best drivers car I've owned has been the 340R, 190 BHP (No comments Dodgy) and I'm nearly certain the reason I loved it was down to the weight. The 340R weighed in at 690Kg, most of the elises I've weighed have been at least 730. The downside for the 340R was the weather protection or lack off which got me thinking of a list of what I want out of a car.

I still like the S1 looks.
Has to be usable everyday but most likely only to be used at weekends.
Needs a heater and weather protection
Must be Mid engined
Most importantly Ive got to enjoy the drive and this comes down to the steering and overall weight (I believe) so needs to be light, maybe 650Kg.
Engine wise, I want quick reving. I loved the torque of turbos and for overall long distances or quick enough for trackdays they are the way forward, I dont think you can beat Robins S2 with the Audi, a brilliant package. For me though, its quick weekend blasts, maybe odd trackdays but mostly just driver enjoyment as quickly as possible. Hondas are revy but heavy so I though why not Hayabusa. Much lighter and I get the bonus of having a sequential box. Then you have to consider it also about noise, the Haybusa at full chat sounds amazing.
So 12K red line and sequential box.

Long story short I started off by putting a standard S1 down to Zcars for them to fit a new tubular subframe. Keeps the same wishbones gemoetry etc but also gives me the mounting points for a Gen 1 or Gen2 Busa. Ill be collecting the car shortly to start fitting the engine, making a manifold etc etc. As regards ZCars so far they started doing there own around 10 years back but never fully finished it. I had a shot of a few weeks back and it felt not too bad, engine needed work but I liked the weight/feel and the noise was immense.

MCCape asked why not go bike, truth is Im a big girl. I played with a CBR600 last year but didnt feel comfortable, always too cautious and also feel limited in terms of use. Most of my fun driving is on route to work, all year which I cant do with a bike. With kids I dotn get Saturdays or Sundays to go for a drive so need to take advantage of what I do have and that is a maze of roads to and from work.

So hopefully by next summer Ill have put something together thats on the road, lets wait and see but in the mean time I see Im not completely mad,

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=30940

Everyone said the torque will be lacking but lets see.

PS Means my Bell and Covill 160 is for sale!

[Eric K]

Makes perfect sense to me. I've mused about it myself.

Presume engine goes in longitudinal.

If so, are you planning dry sump?

I put a K3 'busa in my old Westfield.

For us, the time consuming bit was in the water and oil plumbing.

Really interested to hear how you get on.

I also have a small selection of 'busa bits kicking around.

Best of luck.

Cheers,

Eric

[r10crw]

Hi Erik,

Not looked into the plumbing yet, I assume it has a stat with bypass but did wonder about the heater circuit.
She should sit transverse with exhaust exit as per rover, to the front but will channel down the side of the block rather than under.
Drive will come via a transfer box/Diff from Quaiffe which gives me the of three gear ratios and includes a reverse so no chain. Its similar to what they have and not noisy. Id been worried it was going to be like a straight cut box, constant whine but not at all. You lose power this way but its worth it for the convenience of decent ratios and a proper reverse.
As regards sump, not got this far. Im living in Norway until xmas so wont get the car back until then. At which point I need to think about all the other bits. Ive seen pics of the subframe fitted to the car so just waiting to find out more about the gears.
Id planned on starting a long term build once I get here home, just the Ducati engined car on Pistonheads seemed fitting.

[Mike Scib]

Craig, how does a motorbike engine stand up to the extra weight of a car, surely it must be a load of extra stress on it?

Looking forward to seeing the build thread

Ps, what you need is a Supercharged VX, far better than any Elise

[Eric K]

Aha, transverse will be much easier. No dry sump so no big oil tank and no compromise with electric water pump and stuff.

BTW, if I was doing it again, I think I'd maybe buy a complete running bike and break it myself.

I bought engine and it cost me a fortune buying all the sensors I didn't know I needed.

[r10crw]

Not sure Mike, most say that you can fit bigger clutch springs and you good. Others reckon you need to change the output shaft but Im not sure. Ill try it and see.
A charged Vx, guess its using the US kit? 240hp?

Eric, yep definitely looking to buy a bike, either a smashed Gen 2, or a running Gen1. Ive been caught out buying engines before.

[Mike Scib]

Yes mate, picked it up the other day.

This weeks toy

[Shug]

You sure you still can get away without dry-sumping - even with it transverse? I know the majority have lunched because they've been longitudinal in a caterfield setup, but I don't think bike sumps are designed for any sideways G - if you think about it, when a bike has a cornering force acting on it, the engine is leant over, meaning the oil level should be roughly level in the sump (IYSWIM)

I'm from the camp that usually says bike engines are best in bikes, but the Busa has enough torque to make it interesting in a car. Will be keen to hear how quick it actually feels when it's done. Cool project

[Corranga]

Craig, how does a motorbike engine stand up to the extra weight of a car, surely it must be a load of extra stress on it?

Z-Cars have been sticking them in Minis for years, a standard mini weighs about a passenger less than an Elise, so I guess by the time you take into account loosing the weight of a K series 1.8 vs A series 1.3 weight, maybe they are about the same?

Sounds like an interesting project either way, the tubular subframe should save a bit of weight over the original Lotus item too I'd imagine.

[Sanjøy]

Love the Holeshot nutters.

[Scuffers]

all I can add is this:

whatever Z Cars say they have done before and tested, take with a massive pinch of salt!

most of their stuff is very much 'just' done stuff, things like dry sumps etc seem to be beyond them.

saw one they did back in 2005:


(and just look at the angle of that driveshaft!)

[campbell]

Superb project, Craig!

Build thread pls

[r10crw]

Simon, the image you posted is the one I had a run of and yes its still a long way from finished. Mapping is a country mile out and not entirely sure the boost control was plumbed correctly but just a guess. Sounded amazing though and they do have some lovely engineering work going on there, Im not massively experienced with mapping but could tell they had their limits. Regardless they were willing to work with me, gave me a good discount for being the first to have a go so I'm fairly happy. The car I gave them had suffered an impact to the back left corner and you could see a small ripple in the subframe. Its been sitting in a shed for 6 years and needed something doing with it, this way Ive cured the subframe replacement whilst having a go at something new.

From the image posted Im going to run the same subframe with the same engine mounts, may need some mods but virtually the same. Difference will be the gearbox/transfer box which is a modified version of the radical one and should allow me to get the drive angles slightly better. Its quite cool as the gears have three configurations allowing three different ratios all changeable (assuming access) in 20 mins, allegedly....

Basically they are doing the subframe (its actually done) and supplying shafts/transfer box which means all I need to supply is the engine. Then all the interfacing stuff Ill do bit by bit. Wiring should be straightforward as its an S1, exhaust is something Im looking forward to as Im going to try build my own manifold. Clutch could be an issue as Im guessing my master will be too much for the slave but we will see.

They weighed theirs at 670 but that was minus undertray, seats etc so probably around 690 when finished. Im going for NA so could lose probably 20/25 Kg off that as they are chargecooled (after the image below) so with that plumbing and the turbo plus related coolant must be around 25Kg?

I guessed a K/PG1 weighed 150 where as the Busa is supposed to be less than 100. All based on speculation though, Ive seen guys lift a BUSA/Box combo on their own though so Im guessing somwhere around 50Kg saving minimum but probably more if starting with a standard car as you can delete so much other crap.

As Im not too focused on track work I hadnt considered the sump but as shug says it expects to tilt, need to see what others are doing first, hopefully for road use it will be fine as standard.

[flyingscot68]

I used to work at a Kawaski dealer that ran a couple of sidecars with ZZR motors in them. I'm sure they were dry sump conversions.
Might be worth speaking to some of the sidecar racers about what you're planning as they'll have plenty of experience with different motors.


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[hiscot]

Looked into the same conversion with holeshot many many years ago craig , most folk with bike engined cars said at the time ,for track yes brilliant but not for the road however it will be good to see yours Look forward to seeing the write up